I have the 2011 NKB Trust Bar 5th Element. Today while riding, the red safety line (5th line) became jammed in the vario cleat while I was adjusting the trim line. Not good.

This happened when I pulled the trim line thereby releasing it from the vario cleat. As I did so, the safety line slipped into the cleat opening and then when I released the trim line, the safety line was jammed in the cleat beneath the trim line.

While this did not create an immediate problem, it was obvious that if I pushed the QR, it would not function properly since the bar could only travel maybe 18-24" before being stopped by the vario cleat which was "locked" to the safety line (acting in effect as a stopper ball on the safety line). In such event, the kite would not totally depower and the outcome could be ugly.

This had never happened to me before but it obviously CAN HAPPEN!

This is a problem NKB needs to address and correct in their next Trust Bar - and for that matter, provide a retro-fix to existing Trust Bar owners.

Dan-at-North - what say you?

Exact same thing happened to me a few times (maybe once every 20-30 sessions?). No immediate danger but it would mean that safety release would not work and you would have to ditch the kite. So now I just keep an eye on it. No easy fix I think, if you guided the 5th line so it runs on the back of the vario cleat (so it cannot get jammed in the front) it would become messier and more tangle prone if you released the safety on water.

[quote="unbob"]I have the 2011 NKB Trust Bar 5th Element. Today while riding, the red safety line (5th line) became jammed in the vario cleat while I was adjusting the trim line. Not good.

It has NEVER happened to me and NEVER will because "i pay attention" when i launch and hook in the chicken loop that the SAFETY LINE is positioned or feeds "below or beneath" the dual depower lines and NOT "OVER"...Simply spin the "auto rotator" below the bar "half a turn" and you will see what i mean before you hook in and launch...TRUST BAR HAS NO DESIGN FLAW....I have used the 2011 bar over a 100 times and the 2010 bar(same design) over a 100 times also....ZERO PROBLEMS

I noticed this same issue the other day, but I don't think its as big of a problem as it seems. The way the cleat is set up, you pull towards you to release. So if you had to releaseto the fifth line, the line would most likely pull itself out of the cleat wouldn't it? I guess it could get super jammed in by the depower strap line, but I think in most cases it would pull right out.

I am cafefull how I launch and were the red line goes on the 4 and 5 line bars, that said I spin and loop the kite a bunch hooked and un hooked so I also have had the line "catch in the cleat". I have had this happen with other kite bars that use a similiar system so I have never viewed it as a issue, i know it happens becuase my froun lines are crossed or twisted when I use the trim. I always just move the depower rope a little in or out depending on how I am trimmed and pull out the red line, fast simple and a easy fix then I can retrim the kite. And keep kiting with a working saftey system.....

I would not consider this a design flaw so much as a user issues. If you try and trim your kite with your lines crossed this may happen if you untwist your lines (using the iron heart swival) and insure the saftey is below the cleat then trim your kite there is not any issue.

As I life loung sailer and rock climber I assume rope, lines, etc will get tangled this is part of using ropes or lines while doing any activity, is it safe to say all kite lines have a design flaw becuase they may get a knot in them if you do not pay attention when setting your kite up??

I don't think it is fair to call the saftey line "maybe" catching in the cleat a design flaw if it can be avoided by paying attention to were it is by keeping your center lines neat..

JMHO
BB

You should have testet it by pushing your QR. I am very convinced that the safety line would snap right out of the cleat as Davesails7 says

Its an amazing bar IMHO! Especially with the micro hook upgrade

But thanks for the notification. I will definitely pay attention to it in the future

(sorry for any spelling mishaps)

Doesn't seem like a flaw, since it can happen with literally every bar with any kind of cleat. North bar is really good. My only problem with the North bars both the 5 line and their new quad is the Y is so far up that it pulls the wingtips in too much with other brands, but I understand why they did it, that's so their north system remains compatible year in and year out, but unfortunately it doesn't let you mix and match the north bar with other brands. Maybe some day they will come out with an adjustable Y.

I found this when I brought a brand new 5th Element bar for my Naish Torches after the guy in teh store said it would work. Sure kite did fly but flew like a bag of poo

[quote="unbob"]I have the 2011 NKB Trust Bar 5th Element. Today while riding, the red safety line (5th line) became jammed in the vario cleat while I was adjusting the trim line. Not good.

This happened when I pulled the trim line thereby releasing it from the vario cleat. As I did so, the safety line slipped into the cleat opening and then when I released the trim line, the safety line was jammed in the cleat beneath the trim line.

Here is the 100% Foolproof Tip for you...NEVER release "completely the trim line out" from the vario cleat ( having the "black trim line end" sticking out of the cleat at a 90 degree angle)...it only uses 1 1/4 inch of trim line "in the vario cleat" in order NOT to expose" the "cleat's wide open teeth" to the "wandering safety line"...it barely affects the kite to leave a minimum of trim line in the vario cleat when you want full power...1 1/4 inch of trim line pulled to "lay in vario cleat" equals only "5/8 of a inch" in reducing the front lines length (nearly insignificant depowering) and that's because of the 2 to 1 trim line pulley ratio.....PROBLEM SOLVED!...ZERO DESIGN FLAW!...IT'S ALL GOOD! you are

Thanks for all the feedback amigos! Appreciate the comments.

First, don't get me wrong - I love the Trust Bar! This is the first problem I've observed with the bar. And I should have mentioned that, yes, It was a simple matter to pull the red safety line towards me to release from the vario cleat.

My point is that if this problem should happen and the rider does not notice the safety line jammed in the cleat, it could be a disaster if the QR was later pushed and the kite does not depower properly.

Regardless of the comments, I don't see a 100% foolproof way to avoid this problem. The safety line runs adjacent to the trim line and vario cleat and could be over or under at any given moment. Yes, the safety line and trim line could be twisted and then un-twisted with the "Roto Head" (in front of the QR handle) - but doing so does not ensure that the safety line won't become jammed in the cleat when adjusting the trim line.

Just to be clear, this problem will never happen if the trim line is not adjusted by releasing from the vario cleat.

Perhaps I was a bit harsh in calling this problem a "design flaw". In any case, NKB needs to be made aware that this problem can occur. Whether they decide to do something to ensure it cannot happen is up to them.