*


All times are UTC + 1 hour



Post new topic Reply to topic
 [ 10 posts ] 
Author Message
 Post subject: Large Fins on Raceboards
PostPosted: Mon Nov 28, 2011 4:43 pm 
Offline
Very Frequent Poster
User avatar

Joined: Sun Apr 01, 2007 7:36 pm
Posts: 1266
I recently purchased a 2011 Cabrinha Race 183x59 and am really enjoying it, especially in light wind. It has the stock fins which I believe are about 20 cm long.

What do longer fins get you? Better upwind performance is obvious, but do they increase or decrease your low end? Is it harder to tack and jibe with longer fins?

My biggest problem getting used to the race board is trying to keep the board flat. With the footstraps all the way out on the rail I'm always edging too much (digging the heelside in).

I'm guessing the way this footstrap position is supposed to work is the windward heeling moment of the rider standing out on the rail is counteracted by the leeward heeling moment of the lateral force from the kite against the fins. Longer fins would mean more resistance from the fins and a longer moment arm, so wouldn't it be easier to keep the board flat with larger fins?


{ SHARE_ON_FACEBOOK } { SHARE_ON_TWITTER } { SHARE_ON_ORKUT } { SHARE_ON_DIGG } { SHARE_ON_MYSPACE } { SHARE_ON_DELICIOUS }
Top
Profile
 Post subject: Re: Large Fins on Raceboards
PostPosted: Wed Nov 30, 2011 12:39 pm 
Offline
Very Frequent Poster
User avatar

Joined: Mon Feb 16, 2004 5:36 am
Posts: 8746
Location: Oahu
davesails7 wrote:
I recently purchased a 2011 Cabrinha Race 183x59 and am really enjoying it, especially in light wind. It has the stock fins which I believe are about 20 cm long.

What do longer fins get you? Better upwind performance is obvious, but do they increase or decrease your low end? Is it harder to tack and jibe with longer fins?

My biggest problem getting used to the race board is trying to keep the board flat. With the footstraps all the way out on the rail I'm always edging too much (digging the heelside in).

I'm guessing the way this footstrap position is supposed to work is the windward heeling moment of the rider standing out on the rail is counteracted by the leeward heeling moment of the lateral force from the kite against the fins. Longer fins would mean more resistance from the fins and a longer moment arm, so wouldn't it be easier to keep the board flat with larger fins?


Bigger fins will improve your low end by quite a lot. It takes a bit technique to really get it right, but but you'll go faster and better in low wind.

Obviously all fins are not built the same. I've ridden a few different ones, and some made the board jumpy, and others made it really suck to the surface.

In general it is also easier to keep the board flat as you say. When you ride, try to imagine riding the opposite rail. Push down with your toes.

I mean all of this is really dependent on the quality of the longer fins. On the same board, it will be harder to jibe, but might be easier to tack.

This is actually where the wide big board really help. I just got the new big board from Naish, and immediately easier to ride flat.

either way, getting a second set og fins is worth it, especially if they use tuttle boxes...that means you can keep the fins for other boards...


Top
Profile
 Post subject: Re: Large Fins on Raceboards
PostPosted: Wed Nov 30, 2011 2:06 pm 
Offline
Very Frequent Poster
User avatar

Joined: Sun Apr 01, 2007 7:36 pm
Posts: 1266
Cool, Thanks for the response.

I think the Cabrinha Race has power boxes, so maybe I won't bother with new fins. Will probably just ride this board for another year or so and then buy a newer model with a tri-fin setup and longer fins.

If I were to get new longer fins, the bottom end of pricing seems to be about $150 per fin?

Also I just spent a fortune on this board and a new lightwind/race kite. Though, I don't think there is any better way to spend money on kiting if you're looking for most added sessions per dollar. My low end went from 10 or 12 knots to 6 or 7 knots. That's a huge increase in kitable of days around here.


Top
Profile
 Post subject: Re: Large Fins on Raceboards
PostPosted: Thu Dec 01, 2011 10:23 am 
Offline
Very Frequent Poster
User avatar

Joined: Mon Feb 16, 2004 5:36 am
Posts: 8746
Location: Oahu
I'm not familiar with the powerbox, but I am sure Rista would make something..

Yeah I think the price of a really good set of fins is about $450. When I looked at windsurfing fins, they are about the same price.

I agree so much on the investment. My rule of thumb now is if I can keep the kite in the air, I can go kiting. It is not only kiting, but it is riding at good speeds, having fun while riding. That is insane.

I am kind of addicted, and just added a new board to my setup. Now I have the biggest Naish board. Super fun. Next up is duck tacks.

Where are you located?


Top
Profile
 Post subject: Re: Large Fins on Raceboards
PostPosted: Thu Dec 01, 2011 5:59 pm 
Offline
Very Frequent Poster
User avatar

Joined: Sun Apr 01, 2007 7:36 pm
Posts: 1266
I'm in Virginia Beach. There are about 50-60 kiters in the area, but I think I'm the only one with a raceboard so far. Will have to let people try it out and try to recruit them so I have someone to race against.

tautologies wrote:
if I can keep the kite in the air, I can go kiting


I went to the beach the other day and it was blowing about 4 or 5 knots. The tall grass on the dunes was just barely moving. I was surprised that I was able to get my Dyno 18 up in the air by reverse launching and running backwards. Once it was up there it stayed up at 12-oclock without issue, but I couldn't get enough power to get up riding on the board. So I can get my kite in the air without having enough power to ride, but maybe that will change as I get a little better with the raceboard.

When it's super light is it better to start with your back foot out of the strap? I figured that this would keep the board flatter, planing faster, and weight a little forward until I can get enough speed to start riding off the fins?


Top
Profile
 Post subject: Re: Large Fins on Raceboards
PostPosted: Fri Dec 02, 2011 10:57 am 
Offline
Very Frequent Poster
User avatar

Joined: Mon Feb 16, 2004 5:36 am
Posts: 8746
Location: Oahu
davesails7 wrote:
I'm in Virginia Beach. There are about 50-60 kiters in the area, but I think I'm the only one with a raceboard so far. Will have to let people try it out and try to recruit them so I have someone to race against.

tautologies wrote:
if I can keep the kite in the air, I can go kiting


I went to the beach the other day and it was blowing about 4 or 5 knots. The tall grass on the dunes was just barely moving. I was surprised that I was able to get my Dyno 18 up in the air by reverse launching and running backwards. Once it was up there it stayed up at 12-oclock without issue, but I couldn't get enough power to get up riding on the board. So I can get my kite in the air without having enough power to ride, but maybe that will change as I get a little better with the raceboard.

When it's super light is it better to start with your back foot out of the strap? I figured that this would keep the board flatter, planing faster, and weight a little forward until I can get enough speed to start riding off the fins?


I am sure someone better than me can answer this better, and I will not claim 5 knots (we have threads on this forum where people claim 2 knots which is simply not possible with current gear). It is so soft on the beach I can barely feel it and I have to run up the kite...however there is a little more wind off the beach. I am guessing it starts around 8 mph for me...I'm definitely first on the water. Last time I was out there were no whitecaps.

I have my back foot in the center of the board until I gain a little speed, then I put the back foot in. It seems to me that the upwind drive has to come gradually so I do not stall out the kite. The way you drive the fins is critical to keeping power and speed, and I can go pretty fast even in light wind. My issue comes in the transitions. I am not good enough to always make the transitions without error..I make most of them, but still need to get better at going directly with speed in the other direction. Once I am in the water there is often no longer enough wind to keep the kite up.

Big fins are WAY better at driving the power and speed. No comparison.


Top
Profile
 Post subject: Re: Large Fins on Raceboards
PostPosted: Fri Dec 02, 2011 1:45 pm 
Offline
Very Frequent Poster
User avatar

Joined: Sun Apr 01, 2007 7:36 pm
Posts: 1266
That makes sense. Thanks for your help.

With the way my last few threads have gone, maybe I should just PM you with my race board questions? Haha


Top
Profile
 Post subject: Re: Large Fins on Raceboards
PostPosted: Mon Dec 05, 2011 9:34 am 
Offline
Very Frequent Poster
User avatar

Joined: Mon Feb 16, 2004 5:36 am
Posts: 8746
Location: Oahu
davesails7 wrote:
That makes sense. Thanks for your help.

With the way my last few threads have gone, maybe I should just PM you with my race board questions? Haha


Either way works. I answer what ever I know anything about, and see. For me it helps to think about how I perceive things Too much coffee helps. :-)

Here is my session today. from 3.30pm pm. Riding well powered. Only one out until about 4.30 (well more people tried, but failed (no raceboard)

Image


Top
Profile
 Post subject: Re: Large Fins on Raceboards
PostPosted: Mon Dec 05, 2011 1:43 pm 
Offline
Very Frequent Poster
User avatar

Joined: Sun Apr 01, 2007 7:36 pm
Posts: 1266
The wind report didn't come up, but I checked Kailua for Dec 4 afternoon (I think you had said you ride at Kailua right?). Looks like averaging about 8 knots?

I had said that I was riding in 6 knots before based on the local wind sensors, but after more riding and looking at more wind data, I think I'm comfortably riding in more like 8 knots. Up on the board at 7 knots, but struggling.


Top
Profile
 Post subject: Re: Large Fins on Raceboards
PostPosted: Mon Dec 05, 2011 2:13 pm 
Offline
Very Frequent Poster
User avatar

Joined: Mon Feb 16, 2004 5:36 am
Posts: 8746
Location: Oahu
davesails7 wrote:
The wind report didn't come up, but I checked Kailua for Dec 4 afternoon (I think you had said you ride at Kailua right?). Looks like averaging about 8 knots?

I had said that I was riding in 6 knots before based on the local wind sensors, but after more riding and looking at more wind data, I think I'm comfortably riding in more like 8 knots. Up on the board at 7 knots, but struggling.


Yeah sorry about the wind link...added under.
Actually this wind meter is in MPH. But once I had been out the wind was maybe averaging about 8 knots...I was riding pretty powered, until messing up on the tacks. Key to surviving I think is to keep the speed on the board. It is very hard to do in light wind. Man there are some finicky techniques out there. I think if I can nail the duck tacks, and never ever fail a regular tack, then I'll be good in light winds. hehe.

The lulls were pretty deep. I am getting the contour gps cam so I might bring that out for a session to see what speeds I am achieving in light winds.

I think it is fine to go like you say from maybe 8 mph, but the wind has to be somewhat consistent, and those deep lulls are pretty lethal.


Attachments:
kailua_120411.gif
kailua_120411.gif [ 18.28 KIB | Viewed 1012 times ]
Top
Profile
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic
 [ 10 posts ] 

All times are UTC + 1 hour


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group