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 Post subject: Re: Why are posts about Switch kites deleted? Shame on you T
PostPosted: Thu Dec 08, 2011 3:49 am 
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This has nothing to do with switch, or epic or any other kite company, this has to do with Toby making a buck. He could very well be using his site as a means of extortion... Either buy a banner or I will delete your posts, which are not that different then other companies that do buy a banner.
If you people who are defending Toby and other kite companies that are "allowed" to post dont see how this can be a very slippery slop you need to wake up to the old saying of, "give a man an inch and he will take a mile".
So what happens when I find a product I absolutely have to tell everyone about? Which takes sales away from a sponsoring company? Are my posts going to be deleted? Maybe not today, but if we allow deleting of posts at toby's descretion, which is obviously motivated by money (by his own admission in an earlier post on this thread... I will quote it after this post) what kind of community will we end up with?

Sincerely

Pete


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 Post subject: Re: Why are posts about Switch kites deleted? Shame on you T
PostPosted: Thu Dec 08, 2011 3:50 am 
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Toby wrote:
you are using this forum for free, right?
you are using splocs.com for free, no?
you have the free iphone app?

well, why is all of this free? Because there are companies supporting the forum and websites.
If no one supports, no free content.

The majority of the companies are happy to support sites like this, and they also get their support.

But there are also companies (businesses) who use the forum and don't support at all.
Now that would you call a fair business, wouldn't you? Advertising on here for a worldwide operating company is really low priced...any mag is WAY more expensive!
I rather would say shame on those companies! I am doing a full time job here, and need to eat too...does any of those non supporting companies give you a free kite? I guess not....you have to buy it...


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 Post subject: Re: Why are posts about Switch kites deleted? Shame on you T
PostPosted: Thu Dec 08, 2011 4:08 am 
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Laughingman wrote:
This has nothing to do with switch, or epic or any other kite company, this has to do with Toby making a buck. He could very well be using his site as a means of extortion... Either buy a banner or I will delete your posts, which are not that different then other companies that do buy a banner.
If you people who are defending Toby and other kite companies that are "allowed" to post dont see how this can be a very slippery slop you need to wake up to the old saying of, "give a man an inch and he will take a mile".
So what happens when I find a product I absolutely have to tell everyone about? Which takes sales away from a sponsoring company? Are my posts going to be deleted? Maybe not today, but if we allow deleting of posts at toby's descretion, which is obviously motivated by money (by his own admission in an earlier post on this thread... I will quote it after this post) what kind of community will we end up with?

Sincerely

Pete


:thumb: A kiteforum (or any other forum for that matter) is about open and free exchange of information and not about Toby making money. If some manufacturers want to advertise and buy a banner great, but pay to post compromises the forums credibility.


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 Post subject: Re: Why are posts about Switch kites deleted? Shame on you T
PostPosted: Thu Dec 08, 2011 4:11 am 
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Thanks Windmaker, I agree 100% and your post is much more straight forward then mine. Good post.


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 Post subject: Re: Why are posts about Switch kites deleted? Shame on you T
PostPosted: Thu Dec 08, 2011 4:42 am 
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it is very simple:

anyone can ask anything about Switch or talk about. And also all companies.
Absolutely freedom of speech. Who of you got a posting of your opinion deleted?

If brands pimp and use the site for advertising, without supporting the forums, they get stopped. I don't see why I should be ashamed of that.

If a brand gives prices to someone by posting reviews of their products on any forum worldwide, that is also shameless pimping, by using the forums and not supporting any of them. And be sure that this review is not worth your reading, since it will be pimping as well.
And currently I do stop that as well because of the obvious reason.

Blackmailing a company? Well, I rather would call it lack of respect of my work, and any other forum owner who puts a lot of time and effort in it.


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 Post subject: Re: Why are posts about Switch kites deleted? Shame on you T
PostPosted: Thu Dec 08, 2011 4:49 am 
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Its simple..

They use the site to promote their buzz, and get new customers. If anybody want`s to use any site, for the purpose of making money, they shall pay!

If Switch want`s to hang out for free they can go to beach, if they hang out on others property, now this being the biggest community for kiteboarders in the world, they should pay for hanging out here making money on something others have build.


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 Post subject: Re: Why are posts about Switch kites deleted? Shame on you T
PostPosted: Thu Dec 08, 2011 4:58 am 
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Toby wrote:
it is very simple:

anyone can ask anything about Switch or talk about. And also all companies.
Absolutely freedom of speech. Who of you got a posting of your opinion deleted?

If brands pimp and use the site for advertising, without supporting the forums, they get stopped. I don't see why I should be ashamed of that.

If a brand gives prices to someone by posting reviews of their products on any forum worldwide, that is also shameless pimping, by using the forums and not supporting any of them. And be sure that this review is not worth your reading, since it will be pimping as well.
And currently I do stop that as well because of the obvious reason.

Blackmailing a company? Well, I rather would call it lack of respect of my work, and any other forum owner who puts a lot of time and effort in it.


Dude, you are showing a lack of respect to your forum members, who are really the ones who pay the bills, because without us there are no advertising dollars. Either stop all pimping or stop none of it, it is not up to you, it is up to us, the people you are selling advertisers access to. Like it or not we are your customers. If you create an environment which is not conducive to free exchange of ideas and freedom of speech, you will eventually not have a member base worth selling advertising on. I like this place mostly, but it is not irreplaceable and i will move on if I feel that censorship based on advertising dollars is a reality, you can bet I am not the only one.


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 Post subject: Re: Why are posts about Switch kites deleted? Shame on you T
PostPosted: Thu Dec 08, 2011 5:21 am 
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Laughingman wrote:
[q If you create an environment which is not conducive to free exchange of ideas and freedom of speech,


LOL..
Are you talking about freeing Libya or any other Northen African state?

It`s a private business you have entered! Toby`s business.
He will work for free for any user, but any business that would like to profit from his work, will be ask to pay for the use of the site.

This have nothing to do whit ideas or freedom of speech. This have to do whit a company, that want`s to advertise for free.


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 Post subject: Re: Why are posts about Switch kites deleted? Shame on you T
PostPosted: Thu Dec 08, 2011 5:47 am 
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thx Paff, exactly.

Laughingman: anything got deleted from you where you expressed your opinion in a respectful way towards other members?

And how many postings do you see about stuff from non advertisers? Do you think they get deleted?

Switch is a special situation, since they just use and don't support. If they want to run a proper business, there are certain rules to be played, no matter if my forum, other forums or magazines.

Do you like pimped posts or reviews only written so the author wins something? If no one takes care of the forum you would have 300 "Like me" postings, 100 biased reviews, hundreds of camp ads, tons of spam anyway etc. Plus members bashing each other big time? DAILY ! Do you call that content?


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 Post subject: Re: Why are posts about Switch kites deleted? Shame on you T
PostPosted: Thu Dec 08, 2011 6:32 am 
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PAFF wrote:
Its simple..

They use the site to promote their buzz, and get new customers. If anybody want`s to use any site, for the purpose of making money, they shall pay!

If Switch want`s to hang out for free they can go to beach, if they hang out on others property, now this being the biggest community for kiteboarders in the world, they should pay for hanging out here making money on something others have build.


Look at that. The pot calling the kettle black. Mr Paff just posted on another thread that the "North Dyno is the best lightind kite" when asked by the Cabrinha pimp why that is, he simply answered " try for yourself".

Why did that post not get deleted? Was it informative? I'd say no.


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