Here's the main issue= there is not much manufacturer, retailer, instructor, or even personal responsibility in this sport.In the race for the almighty dollar, most all standards have gone out the window. It's getting worse each day that we sit around and do nothing about illegal business practices and the other problems we have, and the only thing we have to lose is access.

My ideas are very simple and In my opinion, would go a VERY long way to sort out some of the problems, and help encourage EVERYONE in the business to operate respectfully because their INTEGRITY is at stake with every dollar they make. I know plenty of people who stay offline completely, just to avoid the personal responsibility of their daily actions or business practices.

Each and every person who makes a buck in the sport, be it Mfg., retailer, instructor, or otherwise should have a PUBLICLY ACCESSIBLE PROFILE where ANYONE can comment on their service, products, or whatever.
Think of it as seller feedback on E-Bay, or a Facebook/Linkedin/Angie's List combo.. The reader can sort through the reviews and decide for themselves if they want to do business with someone. If they get burned, it's on them, but can at least know they have somewhere to complain.

With such a system in place, a manufacturer could actually check into WHO they are getting themselves involved with, and HOW they operate. This would also work beautifully for instructor feedback, or for selecting team riders.
The real authority in this sport should be local associations, with industry fueling them and standing by them 100%. In my eyes, an association is one that is formed of many, and one who's primary concern/responsibility is preserving access and problem solving.

www.kiteboardingtampabay.com

Good idea. But it would only be fair if Mr. ANYONE's comments or criticisms is backed by evidence and he is not allowed to remain anonymous, as the KBA bashers (Laughingman, chasingthewind, et al.) are, cowardly spewing their venom here. Vlad lost his anonymity only because Raam named him. ANYONE, fine, but with PUBLICLY ACCESSIBLE PROFILE as well.
How to avoid commercially motivated rants, as it seems to be the case here?
Backers of Vlad show your faces if you're no wimps and try to prove me wrong in my suspicion you are buddies of the opposite gang of losers.

Laughingman , chasingthewind and the noob Thaiki , the trio of wet rags, who are you?

Alex (aka Silverfox)

^^^
i even sympathized with your explanation that Asia is a different culture altogether and one can´t expect the western ethics to apply local, but KBA business conduct is indeed lame by "our" western standards

guess most of the forum users are bashing KBA by their own standards

you are saying you are not anonymous?! aren´t you? this is a international forum! Alex/Silverfox does mean fuck!

KBA business ethics could be somehow excusable under the "culture difference bag", having Cabrinha and Airush going along with such is not, same for Flysurfer if they end up deciding to establish KBA as their official dealer.

Tiago Cortes Rocha
and now - i´m not still anonymous?!


Vlad - well done! Learn a thing or 2 here and glad things get resolved for you.

Okay so just for fun ...

Do I get it right ?

KBA sells a defect kite, proves it by having no SN, the kite flies wrong, then this warranty problem arises, and the customer is not satisfied ( 3 months instead of 12 claimed on website ... yeah ... wtf ... ) and the answer you are giving ( from what we read here and the lack of answers with evidences ) is this :

-We do sell defect kites, but it's okay because there's still fools buying it ... ( Well then all fine )


-We do claim a doubled warranty period on our website, but we sell kites with half of the original brand warranty. ( I love this one ... )


-We do sell grey market kites with SN cutoff, but it's okay because the shop next door is selling fake boardshorts and the next one fake necklaces ... ( alot of people lost life kiting, not many lost it from boardshort colors fading off ... so better not give even more risky kites into beginners hands i guess ... )


But still you throw this out :" And customers better know where is the boundary of libel:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... -site.html
Vlad is less likely to have Dave's talent than KBA handing down damning evidence to their lawyers."

Are you really crazy ?

I'll still give one advice, critics are always better with suggestions ... but maybe you should forget the quantity for a while and focus a bit more on quality ( like legal stuff, or customers relations, doesn't really look good when you're insulting all your unsatisfied customers ... )

Jim

lovin the thread btw ... Some epic stuff in there !

alex,
By selling unauthorised goods, what KBA is clearly doing if they are selling north kites, they are clearly at fault, with out even mentioning the cut off SN and no warranty issues. If the KBA is so fair as you claim and defend them to be, why don't they just sell and promote the kite brands they are authorised for.
It is pretty clear who's fault this is, to begin with.

i'm not affiliated with anyone, just my observation of this thread.

How do you do Tiago? Have we met? Do you know the persons involved here?
I wasn't asking to you, but the three local wet rags who evidently know me, but wouldn't say who they are, and are telling me here thing they didn't dare say face to face.
I didn't quite get your point, can you please rephrase the bit with "culture difference bag".
At the bottom of each post, there is "profile", "pm" and "email". Find me or email me there; easy.
If you've been in Thailand long enough, you'd know me.
In the end, and you've got to admit it, all this bashing has got only one motive: gaining market share. KBA's got most of it and hyenas are after them using methods which are in no ways more ethical than KBA's alleged ones.
Cheers Tiago,
Alex
You are welcome to email or pm me; I'll reply.

PS: Granted, sympathising with local culture is no excuse for dishonest behaviour...
But you appear to state one thing and its opposite in your introductory sentence. Which standard should apply? Do you want to impose Western standards in Asia? If not, what's your point precisely?

Alex
no, we didn´t met before.

Did not understood your post as addressed to only 2 or 3 persons, thus my comment.

Given your last question, my view
any world-wide company should conduct business under their own standards of what´s right or wrong.

It´s not about to impose foreign culture to others, but to decline making business in case the local partner etchics does not align with what´s perceived as acceptable.

i suspect Cabrinha/Airush/Flysurfer would´t accept in their own local market an official dealer that sell ´fake´ gear as legit even if from a different brand - assuming this as true then can´t imagine why not kept this ethics worldwide.

I´ve read Vlad post as just the week-end warrior looking for a good deal that end up with a real bad experience, not something about market share. Maybe i´m being naive.

stay well, tiago

You don't get it, do you? There is no distinction between authorised or unauthorised. It doesn't mean anything here, even I believe under the law. If businesses stress the difference and try to gain respectability of potential customers in this manner, good for them. It's just like the IKO thing, which for me and by-the-way is a total scam.
The distinction doesn't mean anything to most businesses because it doesn't mean anything to the cheap charlie sucker... to him a kite is a kite is a kite. Vlad knew exactly what he was up to since he was a returning customer.
It's not enough to declare you are not affiliated with anyone to be impartial.
You don't have all the elements to judge. I haven't got them. I am not saying KBA is clean or "fair", nor am I defending them in this particular case about which I am little informed; I am only saying no one has got the right to accuse them without hard evidence of wrongdoing.
Others than KBA are clearly at fault. KBA's North supplier to start with.
There was no SN. This seems to be established, but who took it off?
Is it illegal, under the law (even the Western one) to sell a kite without SN?
Has it been established KBA has committed a crime under the law?
If it hasn't you all better shut up, because the whole case becomes a question of interpretation of what's ethical and what's not in this business, and use that interpretation to suit one's own agenda.
I can come up with lots of horror stories of local kite businesses being ethically at fault, according to anyone's standards. But it would never come to my mind to create threads on such topics.
You've got to be an impaler to think of doing that.
Hi!

Assuming the kites arrived at the shop sans-numbers - why are kites being sold without serial numbers? I wouldn't buy a motorbike that had serial numbers removed...

...unless you were a cheap charlie.
It is only because there is demand that such practices survive.
If there were no Vlads willing to buy without SN, there would be no kites available without SN.