Couple of Observations:

1. Vlad - you are Russian. I'm sorry but you guys are the world champions of scams and doing dodgy backhanded deals, blackmailing, or trying to milk warranties. Therefore I really have difficulty accepting your report as at all credible. Russians I knew when I was growing up in the US would buy a big screen TV on the Friday before the Superbowl and then return it on Monday saying, "My warranty is still good."

Your story sounds ever so familiar to the 900 or so similar experiences I have dealing with Russians myself living in and working with Russia for the past 5 years. So yes, prejudiced of me to just say it but I have to at the very least discount your claim at by at least 50 percent on the basis of your nationality. You might be 100 percent honest, but I have ZERO faith in anyone from Russia ever telling the truth 100 percent in this situation. Это просто так, чувак!

2. KBA is in Asia - so anyone expecting German style business operations, ethics, and standards is probably a German guy that doesn't realize that the Euro and Berlin hasn't taken over fiscal and political control of the rest of the world, just Greece. For that reason, I doubt very much that KBA would be entirely straight forward here either.

3. Caveat Emptor - if you are buying a used kite with serial tags snipped off and god knows what then you are accepting a certain amount of risk that the product is defected or fake. That's the risk you take. This goes for buying any product and especially anyone buying anything in places like Asia and my personal favorite Russia - where every teenage girl walks around in fake d & g jeans.

I bought my first 2 kites from KBA - Hua Hin and almost bought a kite from them yesterday. So I will be keen to learn more about this.

To me this sounds like a bungled second hand transaction between two parties where the Russian guy, with nothing to lose, tries to intimidate the Thai guy, with a business and a family to feed, into getting a free kite. Sure, i believe the kite is messed up and that the serial tags were cut off at some point. But Vlad appears to have bought this kite in an unofficial capacity and that is what you get.

alexrider, why do you take KBA's attorney role in this thread? Looks like you're only one here, who defends KBA and keeps discussion going. Thank you for that.

You're admitting, that when I was buying this kite, I know beforehand it has no serial number and not admissible for any warranty (not from North, nor from KBA). Please tell me:

1. Do you think, that KBA tells straight to all its customers about absence of SN? (not denying, but keeping silent is different from telling straight)
2. Do you think, that KBA should tell about it straight? Or it is normal "Asian way" of business?
3. What you're connected to KBA? If you're so against anonymity and so defending them, make it clear.
4. What do you think of KBA warranty policy? 3 month vs 12, no replacement vs replacement by North?
5. Don't you think, that buying kites without SN is equal to buying stolen goods? (When you're buying car without SN from thief, you're breaking the law)

I lived in India for 6 months two years ago. But I will tell you nothing, based on your nationality, your relatives living there, or places you have lived in.

I can tell you one thing, based on your words. You're fucking stupid to be a racist and not keeping these words inside your stupid head. Strange, that you lived here and there and still tell other people this shit.

This is my 4th kite from North. 3 previous are so wasted from hard use, but still working and flying damn good. This one was "new" and fresh from my standards. If it fails, what should I do, just throw 1000$ away?

Also, read the topic first. Kite was bought new, no second hand here.

Racist? I'm white. My family is from Eastern Europe dude. My long term is partner is Russian too by the way. She agrees with me. In any case, I don't hate hate white people, or Russians. I quite like them both. I just don't trust them to be ethical when dealing with business in the traditional western protestant liberal sense. You wouldn't last a minute doing business in Russia if you were to be this niave.

To clarify, I work in India. Not Indian. White guy. I look a bit like Medvedev actually.

Call me stupid or racist. I called my words, "Prejudiced" which they are. Still, my prejudice is based on pretty sound historical context which is pretty much how all living organism and certainly all mammals make decisions in life. So, forgive me for being human and not trusting you based on your nationality.

Sorry, if I misunderstood the thread with regard to the kite being new. To me, if the kite isn't in a plastic shrinkwrap bag then it isn't new - it's probably "newish." Was it in a shrinkwrap bag? Was it in a shrinkwrap bag with no serial number?

Tell me please, since when white guy can't be a racist?

You can think whatever you want. But some things are meant to keep to yourself and not be shared in respectable community like this one.

Some can remember, that some guys in this story are Jewish. Who cares? Idiots and great people come from all races and nationalities. Can I kindly ask you to skip these points from this discussion?

Read the topic (two actually), please. So much was said, and you come and tell that Russians could not claim warranty for kites

Just check the Official Northkiteboarding web site and , surprise , there is no North dealer in Thailand autorized by the original brand
If you are reading me , North people , could you tell us how it's possible that the biggest school in Asia , are selling your stuff without your official agreement ?http://www.northkites.com/public/content/meta_navigation/dealer/index_eng.html

Yep, white guys can be racist. But you're a white guy and so am I. So I doubt I'm being racist against you because you are white. However, I am being prejudiced against Russians on account of typical business practices practiced in Russia.

For you to say that we should just ignore the fact that you are Russian and the vendor is Thai is naive. It is essential information in this game of "He said, she said." Furthermore, this thread is about a common issue in kiting: the differences and standards practiced by members of different countries. I can make another prejudiced statement here about Russians, which is that Russians are usually pretty terrible about right of way rules and generally inconsiderate of others. Anyone who has ever vacationed in Vietnam or Egypt is free to dis/agree here.

The purpose of this thread is to educate and warn people about these type of shenanigans. My highly prejudiced opinion, which comes with years of doing business in Russia and Asia is my attempt at helping to bridge the gap where the truth actually exists in your argument with KBA.

I'm simply dubious of both statements because they can't both be accurate.

Your accusations are fairly broad and sweeping. 1) KBA is selling knock off products. 2) KBA is selling inferior defected products. Those broad and sweeping accusations are fairly unsubstantiated except for by your testimony which, I say, lacks credibility because you have the incentive to lie or distort fact, have nothing to lose, and come from a place known for employing these tactics on a regular basis. (see this little dittie as an example: )

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/01/17/facebook-koobface-hackers_n_1210091.html

KBA on the otherhand has a long running business with many satisfied (and probably some unsatisfied customers). They have lots to lose by selling knock off products or defected products. It seems like a pretty big leap to make these accusations. Your argument wouldn't hold up in court.

Lastly, I really think that anyone engaging in a kite sales transaction in the developing world really needs to be highly cautious. While KBA is an established organization in Thailand it is still a thai school with many subsidiary franchises operated locally and much less formally by people that may have the incentive to cheat you. And they very well might have in your case. Thanks for the warning. I will be extra careful should I decide to do business with them again.

I've noticed that many schools in Thailand claim IKO certified instructors and compliance. I'm very suspicious of that too.

By the way, I have just read through the thread again and I am still confused.

1. If the kite was new, did it come in originally shrinkwrap and packaging? Or was it presented as a "newish" kite.

2. At what point did you realize there was no serial number on it?

3. If you went to a pawn shop in the "bad part of town" and found that they were selling guns with serial numbers rubbed off, would you be surprised that someone had committed a crime with it? Would you be surprised if the rolex they sell you for just 200 dollars is not exactly real? Would you be surprised if when you tried to return it the owner was suddenly unhelpful?

4. If you went to Gorbushka to buy some electronics stuff nearby Metro Bagrationavskaya would you assume that the dvds were real? That the electronics were "top quality" and not stolen?

5. Were you born yesterday? I just don't buy that you were completely naive. You must have been at least partially complicit. The kite wouldn't have been cheaper if there wasn't a good reason for it to be.

I am selling a kite on ebay at the moment. The highest bidder asked me if i could post it to Nigeria as a present for his cousin Should I trust him?

alex rider...why do you keep aggresssively going on about 'unmasking', 'show your self' or 'face to face' to anybody that puts forward a comment on this thread thats not backing up KBA?.... it sounds like are raring to have a fight with all these people behind the bike sheds after school?!
your not barking with wolves as you said just yapping on your own at anyone that walks past the gate or in this case posts on this thread.
most of your comments have been either aggressive,childish or attempting to divert from the thread.
you pretty much ALONE have kept this thread in 1st place due to this...but.. now you seem to have a friend in chicken tikka with his comment about 'russians'..tikka..i'm half russian..does that mean i just tell LITTLE LIES or just THINK ABOUT SCAMS! .there are decent people and c**ts in every country and racism isnt just about colour so your comments are irrelevant, why not get back to the topic instead of throwing presonal slurrs at people....after all its NOT YOU 2 this thread about

i cannot remember all the post due the above mentioned distracting from topic but ron segal seems to have made pretty good points...but i didnt see the silverfox getting arrgessive with him...maybe big rons bigger than the bully!!

i think the original poster kind of new what he was doing especially if his been kiting round this area for sometime..i do.. problem only arises when a fault was found and warrenty is none existant..but just how good is a warrenty anyway when you have a product that could, can and often is crashed into the sea or beach at high speeds??..i can understand if a board delaminates because it doesnt really get trashed that much compared to the other equipment. if i slammed my kite into the water and it popped i would be pissed but wouldnt expect to get a new 1 from the company and billies advise about the lines would be something i'd have tried first...espically after 3 months use of the kite, i'm guessing it was more todo with customer/retailer relations!

and for the record i am neither a KBA hater or NORTH lover, i bought equipment from KBA, didnt have a problem with it, nor from the stuff i bought from NORTH, or SURF SPOT! faults in goods are in every product somewhere but luckily they are few and far between.

cheers..better get back to my sewing machine..these serial numbers wont stitch themselves in!!!