A huge strong point of the Peter Lynn Arc. No comfier kite out there. Some of you old dudes should try one. User friendly with more performance than most riders will ever outgrow.

I remember making the suggestion, on KF, about 6 years ago, to do just that...and man-oh-man did I ever get an ear-full of advice, summed up as:

NEVER, EVER, NEVER, NEVER, PUT BUNGEES ON YOUR REAR LINES.

They said that the kite would rapidly become dangerously uncontrolable, due to a resonant/harmonic... an undampened, forced harmonic undulation... similar to the situation, where the Tacoma Narrows (Galloping Gurtie) bridge was destroyed. So, I never pursued the idea. Now consider that this was the days of the "C" kite, and not all "C" kites were 'front-line-fliers', in those days, so, it may be possible to use this 'rear-line-recoil' option with the front-line-flying-bridled kites of today. I would be skeptical, but would like to have someone else be the crash-test-dummy on this experiment.

You could be the one, Ronnie..."Are you feeling lucky"? Let us know what happens. You have been warned!

You gotta excuse me for misquoting you with the above quote, but here is another "unintended consequence" (the good kind) of playing around with the 'below the bar' recoil device that I presented... You can SEE what actually happens when a gust hits your kite. Normally, without such an 'aid', all you can do is FEEL what happens, when a gust hits your kite. Using the recoil device, you will receive an education about kites and the effect gusts have on them. Here is what I learned the first time I used the recoil device:

Even BIG gusts only pull the bar out a shorty distance, like 4 to 6 inches. In the past, when big gusts hit my kite, I would react by pushing the bar WAY OUT, and I was given the impression that big gusts push the bar a long distance. What does really happen, is that big gusts push the bar HARD... but not that far. Normally, the kiter reacts to a gust, by pushing the bar way out, past the point that the gust would 'pull' the bar. When you have the recoil device hooked in, and let the gust go to "auto-pilot", the gust 'pulls' the bar out hard and fast, but not too far... because the spring device meters out the 'gust-busting' force in a gradual, controled and decelerating manner.

So, I would make the case that this type of spring device is an educational tool. You really do end up "seeing the gust"... and seeing is believing.

You know who we could ask about that! Maybe, someone who knows as much or more about kite design characteristics than anyone on the planet...and someone who is gracious enough and patient enough to explain things to amateurs.

I am thinking of Bill Hansen

I Never used a Stopper.
Only two bars i own are a Peter Lynn, for my Venom's, and the 2006 bar's
off an Ozone instinct. I got 3 of each, set up on different line lengths.
I even used the 27m line bar for my 2010 -13m Edge, and it's a 4 line kite.
All i did was pull the 5th line off.
SO-- i got nothing to add to this thread ; I'm Learning a BUNCH though ,
so Thanks !!

On the Gust Handling coming from the kite thing :
The Venom is a bunch of tubes filled with air, so the TE will deform whenever a gust hits it.
You can't even Feel it on your harness. The first time i hooked Romona up to one
it was my 10m Venom & it Was blowing 25 G30. She said that THIS thing isn't
gonna pull Me !!
OH ----It Pulled her alright ; she was amazed and bewildered that a kite could be so
Smooth !!!

Would you mind explaining that please ? ------------------------Bille is confused !!

Thanks : Bille

Billie,

I would defer to Bill Hansen on this "kite lore"...I'll just say that: first there was the 2 line kite (minimal bridled), then we rolled up the wingtips, took off the bridle, ended up with 4 lines going to the kite...many problems, like kites shooting overhead and behind and Hindenberging, and lines falling down on our heads...then, came the 4 liners with equal force on front and back lines, or even 'back line flyers', with too much force on the back lines... then, came the front line flyers, with most of the force on the front lines...with an end of a lot of the Hindenbering, steering, and depower problems. It was a fast moving time in "C" kite evolution. Multiple contusions and bruises experienced. You had to be there to know great the present day kites really are!

I wouldn't even try - as I said, I expect the kite design to do that (a bit like a windsurf sail is downhauled to allow it to twist off in the gusts).

My testing of the "below the bar" plus the "inside the bar" recoil devices has been very encouraging... I am about to put up the "Mission Accomplished" sign.

I have used both the external to the bar bungeed system and the internal to the bar system in conjunction with the short "recoil leash" in conditions ranging from highly powered 7M to low wind 13M conditions, and the system shows "problem-solving" promise, for different reasons in each of these conditions. I keep making discoveries, and come back smiling, after each session. I have done some testing of the "above the bar" spring loaded stopper, but am not encouraged... mainly because of the length the device takes up on the powerline.

This "below the bar" recoil type of device will be most applicable in its use as an aid to those kiters, who are recovering from a wrist, elbow or shoulder injury, but do not want to completely give up kiting. The device, when used properly and conservatively, will give relief to the injured joint or muscle, but still allow the injured kiter to enjoy getting out on the water. I have tested this hypothesis, with a sore shoulder, and was thrilled with the results.

I would recommend that the kiter, first, learn how to use the device, before he really needs the benefit of the device… not while he is in an injured state… just for safety reasons. The learning period is very short, and involves performing all the maneuvers that a kiter typically uses while "Mowing-the-Lawn". This is the level of kiting that an injured kiter should limit himself to, anyways. The kiter can, do heel-side and toe-side turns, jumps, air-jibes, down loops, and simple back rolls, but that should be about all.

Note: Here is what I learned, the last time out in 7M wind: This type of spring loaded device may actually have a use by "expert" kiters, who want to boost even higher jumps…. this is still a hypothesis to be tested, but here is what happened to me. Yesterday in powered up 7M wind, I got up enough nerve to pop a good jump, and was surprised by the extra "pop" the device gave me. I was ripped off the water! Then, I realized that I was loading up the bar with an extra 50 pounds, when going into the "pop"... It would be fun to see what Ruben Lenten would do with such a device, which was spring-loaded with twice the force of the one I am using. It may just throw off his timing, but you never know. A hypothesis, that I would like to see tested.

Anyway, my recommendation to not just "aging weekend warriors", but to those who "throw-down", and sooner or later will experience wrist, shoulder or elbow injuries…Make one of these devices and learn how to use it before you really need it. You know that you are not going to want to stop kiting, even, when you are not 100% healthy.

Or better yet, encourage one of the kite manufacturers to produce a neat and refined product, modeled on this concept. There would be quite a demand for the item, considering the fact that the kiteing cohort is aging, and they are ALL going to have strains, overuse issues, and other types of problems, sooner, rather than later.

Here is a suggestion, and a question for kite instructors.

SUGGESTION: Expand your teaching opportunities: Begin teaching the use of this device. First, teach yourself.

QUESTION: What repercussions will you suffer from the instructional organizations (IKO, PASA, etc)? Will your insurance be canceled, or your license canceled, or some restriction be placed on you? I would guess that, since this kind of instruction, would not be "by-the-book", that there could be some repercussions…. so, would the teaching of such techniques be prohibited, until a standard procedure protocol was created, standardized, and approved by the regulatory organization?

Much still to be discussed….

Anyway… so far, so good!

Yesterday, while was out on the water, kiting and relaxing in gusty 7M conditions, while using the "below the bar" recoil device, a thought came to me, that, another use for this kind of "below the bar" recoil device, would be in long distance channel crossings. This device could be as good, or possibly better than a conventional stopper ball, allowing the rider to relax his arms, for long periods, at a time, and thereby save his energy for times, when it was really needed.

If I have detected any "problem" so far, with the device, it is that of allowing the rider to relax, TOO much, and kind of loose touch with the character of the wind...the spring action of the device smooths out the gusts to the point, where the rider may start to judge the wind, as being much less gusty, than it really is. As the gusts hit you, your hands just "follow" the bar, rather than "wrestle with it"... shoving it forward, putting on the brakes, and then, yanking it back... as each gust hits the kite.

For me, at least, it will be fun to find out if this kind of device has any potential value to advanced kiters, who want to jump high, or do long distance kiting. I am now convinced that the device has value to kiters, suffering from an "overuse", joint, tendon or muscle injury... as long as they learn to use it before the injury occurs!

That is all...