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 Post subject: Re: Advanced technic to bail out in air loft .
PostPosted: Wed Feb 15, 2012 6:48 pm 
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Billy B. wrote:

Did you answer my questions?

How many loops have you thrown in a row?

Have you used several loops to climb with while in the air?

Have you ever been in a updraft and used loops to escape?

BB


One of the answer lies in the movie. Why are you asking? Do you think it is important how many loops in a row you do, in order to be capable to draw a conclusion? You should really watch that movie. It is an answer to many of your statements.
I have escaped an updraft, by using a kiteloop ( yes, only 1 ) - it's not on tape, so I have never talked about it.

Vlad


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 Post subject: Re: Advanced technic to bail out in air loft .
PostPosted: Wed Feb 15, 2012 7:52 pm 
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Depending on conditions, looping can have the opposite of your desired effect.

Especially in rotor turbulence, looping can keep your kite in a rising airmass that takes you up higher and longer. (edit: or if you're 'shallow' in ridge lift)

The longest controlled jumps, including a 22 second jump on SF Bay about 5 years ago, are achieved by looping in rotor turbulence.

Be careful, my friends.

James


Last edited by JS on Wed Feb 15, 2012 9:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Advanced technic to bail out in air loft .
PostPosted: Wed Feb 15, 2012 8:10 pm 
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JS wrote:
Depending on conditions, looping can have the opposite of your desired effect.

Especially in rotor turbulence, looping can keep your kite in a rising airmass that takes you up higher and longer.

The longest controlled jumps, including a 22 second jump on SF Bay about 5 years ago, are achieved by looping in rotor turbulence.

Be careful, my friends.

James



Correct......In a previous post I mention doing over 10 loops in a hilside updraft and climbing the entire time.

This is the discussion..

Loops in rising air make you go up,

Loops in calm air can control your fall.


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 Post subject: Re: Advanced technic to bail out in air loft .
PostPosted: Wed Feb 15, 2012 8:24 pm 
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kite4surf wrote:
Billy B. wrote:

Did you answer my questions?

How many loops have you thrown in a row?

Have you used several loops to climb with while in the air?

Have you ever been in a updraft and used loops to escape?

BB


One of the answer lies in the movie. Why are you asking? Do you think it is important how many loops in a row you do, in order to be capable to draw a conclusion? You should really watch that movie. It is an answer to many of your statements.
I have escaped an updraft, by using a kiteloop ( yes, only 1 ) - it's not on tape, so I have never talked about it.

Vlad


Vlad-airchatcher,

Again there is no rising air in either video, except the true lofting which both guys left their kites at 12 moved out of the rising air and came back down with out massive injury.

The vid on snow while doing loops which is why you are falling not climbing , you are also side hilling out over a flat spot that makes no rising air. Then the dude in the buggy has no updraft at all he make a mistake and uses a loop to bring the kite back. Your vids have no riseing air so they should not be used to judge rising air.

This is a silly thread, maybe you should go back and reread the comments in this post from other people.

I am a kiter and not a internet forum guy but i think the forum knows not to do loops in a updraft or rising air while being lofted, so I no longer need to discuss this, with you...

I hope you enjoy doing loops how ever you like to, the topic of this thread and your argueement has been that kiteloops will bail you out in a air loft as, it is the title you choose for this thread. Now its that you can use kiteloops while falling to control your decent???? I am confused by why you have "modified your topic" or you have learned that your advise to use kite loops while getting lofted is a bad move?

good luck with your kiting!

Wow I forgot about you video stuff...


You have really given people bad advise in your youtube video and this has been my concern. It is a shame you show two lofting and compare them to what little air you have gotten while snowkiting on a c-kite that loops fast and then claim kiteloops bring you down, this is a horrible thing to do to the kite community..Thanks for reminding me to comment on yout youtube page as well


BB


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 Post subject: Re: Advanced technic to bail out in air loft .
PostPosted: Wed Feb 15, 2012 10:48 pm 
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Billy B. wrote:
JS wrote:
Depending on conditions, looping can have the opposite of your desired effect.

Especially in rotor turbulence, looping can keep your kite in a rising airmass that takes you up higher and longer.

The longest controlled jumps, including a 22 second jump on SF Bay about 5 years ago, are achieved by looping in rotor turbulence.

Be careful, my friends.

James



Correct......In a previous post I mention doing over 10 loops in a hilside updraft and climbing the entire time.

This is the discussion..

Loops in rising air make you go up,

Loops in calm air can control your fall.



Dear Billy B, Billythesnowkiter ,BB , Billy Bordy ,


I will tell you further on things that I have SHOWED in my movie from the top of the thread too. Maybe you will understand them, and I hope they will be told in your courses or in the movies you make on this subject:

There are 2 types of kiteloops, which have different efects:

1) The short and quick KITELOOP (heliloop), which in wind strong enough generates the ASCENSIONAL movement. This kind of kiteloop is frequently used to slow down the descendence, and to control the landing.

2) The KITELOOP that is large and slow and is DESCENDENT. You use this in order to start descending, during a glide ( of course, if you have the necesarry height). This may be followed by a short kiteloop, in order to soften the landing, and to gain a better control over the flight.


In order for you to understand better, I suggest you should try to gain height, while in the air ( how you say to have done before ) with a megaloop ( I propose megaloop because they are the extreme of the 2nd type, so that you can understand faster what I'm talking about ).

PS: DON'T FORGET ABOUT THE LINK !!! ( have the courage, don't pretend not to understand or to forget )


Vlad Postelnicu


Give up to the false mask of the onesty and of the kind diversion. Overcome the idea that there is information just for the initiated ones, it’s about people’s safety, you’ll have clients anyways.

BETTER MASTER THE KITELOOP, RATHER THAN TO IGNORE IT !


Last edited by kite4surf on Thu Feb 16, 2012 3:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Advanced technic to bail out in air loft .
PostPosted: Thu Feb 16, 2012 12:05 am 
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and now since you tell me it is Iresposable to promote gliding with out saying one must master the kiteloop first, which is so untrue becuase you do not need to ever use a kiteloop while gliding....Have you ever used a kite to glide down a hill?



BB[/quote]


Nice I'll answer to this !

Vlad


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 Post subject: Re: Advanced technic to bail out in air loft .
PostPosted: Thu Feb 16, 2012 3:01 am 
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Read the entire Thread .
Lots of Good discussion here !

Some of the guys at Mohave will gather 35ft of altitude when
doing a jump. Really REALLY Good kiters here !

Some choose to do Kite-Loops for landing ;
Some choose the figure 8.

I'm considering this from a Different prospective, (( one from 30 years of HG
and 15 years of PG, and 7 years of Kite-boarding))

If i ever get lofted into a thermal at Mohave ; I'm first gonna Fight the compulsion
to dial into the Core & climb out to 12K ; cause That's what i'd do on a HG or PG !!!

THIS is a Kite-board Kite, and i will "Immediately" go into a figure 8 pattern and adjust
my body & board, to keep me directional stable, (body horizontal, Board vertical).
Then find the edge of the Lift, by angling the kite to one side, ( A-symmetrical figure 8's)
THEN
I'll sheet out about 1/2 and continue the figure 8 but "Always" keep the kite pointed
into the wind. Sheeting Out 1/2, will Increase the speed of the kite thus reducing the
tenancy for a claps AND reducing the Lift.
I will always try to direct the kite to One direction by making the figure 8 pattern asymmetrical
and angled to a given direction.

Upon landing, I'll sheet out to gain energy then FLAIR by sheeting "IN" just before touch-down.

YOU do what you will ; but there's a "Really Good" possibility i can soar a PG & a HG Better than You !
(( hopefully your name Isn't Rob Whittall, owner of Ozone)) !!

Bille


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 Post subject: Re: Advanced technic to bail out in air loft .
PostPosted: Thu Feb 16, 2012 3:26 am 
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Joined: Fri Oct 21, 2005 11:35 am
Posts: 1693
If I was lofted with a kite there's (almost) no way I would loop it to reduce the sink rate. Unless I had practiced and practiced this I think I would be more likely to set up oscillations that would end up with me being very broken when I crashed.

If I was able to practice lofted kiteloop landings then it might be different.

What I would do is hold the bar pulled in and try to stablise myself in a parachute position under the kite. Maybe a little feathering of the bar in and out to try to avoid stalling or surging. If I had the time and the presence of mind I would try to turn the kite into wind. As I said earlier, no side to side or looping movements that would start me swinging relative to the kite.

When coming into land I would do a parachute roll and probably pop the quick release at that time. Essentially this is simulating what happens when you come down under a round reserve.

As for ridge soaring, 22 years paragliding, including 4 years ridge soaring a speed wing, and 12 years kiteboarding. I have lots of experience doing all that soaring stuff with wings designed for the purpose. Virtually no experience soaring wings not designed for the purpose. I don't like my chances of being able to successfully work out how to do a kite loop landing from a lofting on the very first attempt.

My worst kiteboarding crashes have been when I have got high and the kite is at the same height as me :o ... and we both pound in at speed.


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 Post subject: Re: Advanced technic to bail out in air loft .
PostPosted: Thu Feb 16, 2012 5:44 am 
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Bille wrote:

YOU do what you will ; but there's a "Really Good" possibility i can soar a PG & a HG Better than You !
(( hopefully your name Isn't Rob Whittall, owner of Ozone)) !!

Bille


Rob is one of the riders I learned to soar with a kite from, as a Ozone athlete( thanks to Rob) and a Utah local.

Rob would never recomend a kite to fly with, he would say kites are not made to fly with, speed wings and paragliders serve that task. Most of my friends that go silly big do it with such tools,( in Mt Blanc and what not) but I have been lucky enough to learn a ton playing with them. Rob and Chasta as a Ozone guy, Jake Buzianis and Alex Peterson as a Best athlete I learned a ton from these true kite flying athletes. I would say with a kite I do ok with flying thanks to these folks.

I am proud that I have climbed with loops but all of these guys have also done it. I watched AP throw a monster climbing loop while in thermal lift to stay in the core and it ripped him 300 feet high in a few seconds he then flew out of the core and glide down to saftey. Heh was so stoked, some where Adam Koch has pics of it.. I wish I had thoose handy for this thread....


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 Post subject: Re: Advanced technic to bail out in air loft .
PostPosted: Thu Feb 16, 2012 3:17 pm 
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Joined: Sun Apr 25, 2010 4:39 pm
Posts: 45
kite4surf wrote:
Billy B. wrote:
JS wrote:
Depending on conditions, looping can have the opposite of your desired effect.

Especially in rotor turbulence, looping can keep your kite in a rising airmass that takes you up higher and longer.

The longest controlled jumps, including a 22 second jump on SF Bay about 5 years ago, are achieved by looping in rotor turbulence.

Be careful, my friends.

James



Correct......In a previous post I mention doing over 10 loops in a hilside updraft and climbing the entire time.

This is the discussion..

Loops in rising air make you go up,

Loops in calm air can control your fall.



Dear Billy B, Billythesnowkiter ,BB , Billy Bordy ,


I will tell you further on things that I have SHOWED in my movie from the top of the thread too. Maybe you will understand them, and I hope they will be told in your courses or in the movies you make on this subject:

There are 2 types of kiteloops, which have different efects:

1) The short and quick KITELOOP (heliloop), which in wind strong enough generates the ASCENSIONAL movement. This kind of kiteloop is frequently used to slow down the descendence, and to control the landing.

2) The KITELOOP that is large and slow and is DESCENDENT. You use this in order to start descending, during a glide ( of course, if you have the necesarry height). This may be followed by a short kiteloop, in order to soften the landing, and to gain a better control over the flight.


In order for you to understand better, I suggest you should try to gain height, while in the air ( how you say to have done before ) with a megaloop ( I propose megaloop because they are the extreme of the 2nd type, so that you can understand faster what I'm talking about ).

PS: DON'T FORGET ABOUT THE LINK !!! ( have the courage, don't pretend not to understand or to forget )


Vlad Postelnicu


Give up to the false mask of the onesty and of the kind diversion. Overcome the idea that there is information just for the initiated ones, it’s about people’s safety, you’ll have clients anyways.

BETTER MASTER THE KITELOOP, RATHER THAN TO IGNORE IT !



Dear Billy B, Billythesnowkiter ,BB , Billy Bordy ,

Nothing? ...At least a "Thank you! " ... Have you understood now how the kiteloop works?..

Please try to express yourself without lies..


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