Doctors on Helmets

Kamikuza · **Posted:** Mon Apr 09, 2012 2:47 pm

Sure you didn't hit your board or something?

alexrider · **Posted:** Mon Apr 09, 2012 8:45 pm

Years ago, a Spanish friend of mine died after running out of gasoline with a trike ultralight years ago during his attempt to cross the Straight of Gibraltar (it was a first). It was determined that being enable to free himself from his safety gear (belt AND helmet) in time was the main cause of his drowning.
He most probably made a habit of obeying the safety regulations.

Erlend M B · **Joined:** Thu Sep 08, 2005 12:14 pm **Posts:** 174

Kamikuza wrote:

Sure you didn't hit your board or something?

yeah, the boots were so tight, the board couldn't have come of. And I'm not flexible enough to hit my board with it still on my feet

Kamikuza · **Posted:** Tue Apr 10, 2012 2:20 am

Erlend M B wrote:

Kamikuza wrote:

Sure you didn't hit your board or something?

yeah, the boots were so tight, the board couldn't have come of. And I'm not flexible enough to hit my board with it still on my feet

I wouldn't have thought I was that flexible either, but have whacked myself in the back with my board that was still on my feet

Sierra November · **Posted:** Tue Apr 10, 2012 6:00 am

(hard to see) Seems he hits his head with the side first maybe getting a lot of force on his ear. Scary you can pass out from that kind of a crash though. When kiting, 30 seconds can mean you're toast.

KiteschoolHolland · **Posted:** Tue Apr 10, 2012 9:20 am

RickI wrote:
"an overwhelming frequency of helmet related neck injury is not a fact from the accidents I have learned of"

Me: Ofcourse!
Because in the overwhelming frequency of kiting, no helmets are used.
Have you counted?
What I saw in Europe and South America, I'd say less than 1 % kiters wear a helmet.

This is why I wrote:
Maybe widespread use of helmets will mean some decrease in land crash casualties, and some increase in water crash casualties.

RickI:"whether kiters use helmets and other safety gear is up to them to choose, hopefully on the basis of good information and careful consideration."

Me: I appreciate your contribution to that basis, and I think I'm not the only one who does.

KiteschoolHolland · **Posted:** Tue Apr 10, 2012 9:44 am

I'll put my replies in CAPS IN YOUR TEXT --- NO SCREAMING INTENDED

davesails7 wrote:

KiteschoolHolland wrote:

I measured the circumference of my head above the nose, without a helmet and with 3 brands kitehelmet: 59 cm, 64, 68 and 70.
If the water replacement on impact is calculated as a half sphere, it is 1,7 liters, 2.2, 2.6 and 2.9.

Water replacement? I'm guessing you're talking about the displaced volume of the helmet. I don't think displaced volume factors into it at all. Surface area does make a difference (belly flop vs. a dive), but the difference in surface area is pretty small.

PLEASE DO THE MEASUREMENTS. IT MAKES A BIG DIFFERENCE, AND THE GATH WAS THE BIGGEST I MEASURED.

KiteschoolHolland wrote:

So the average of these 3 helmets means a 50 % increase in force on the neck.
Maybe this increase is lessened by a time delay.

The helmet is designed to absorb the energy so that your neck doesn't. If there is a small increase in surface area, the helmet absorbing the energy more than makes up for this.

IF A HELMET WAS DESIGNED JUST TO ABSORB, IT WOULD BE A PILLOW. THE HARD SURFACE IS THE BIGGEST, WHICH CAUSES A HUGE INCREASE OF POWER OF IMPACT.
I WOULD BE GRATEFUL FOR ANY SCIENCE DONE ON THIS, BECAUSE I'M NOT GOING TO RISK MY NECK ON JUST YOUR STATING THAT THE ABSORBING MAKES UP FOR THE INCREASE.

KiteschoolHolland wrote:

But after this calculating and reckoning that 99,5 % of my crashes are on water, I don't think I'll do it again soon.
Unless RickI and others keep being so persuasive (you really are!).

So for every 200 times you crash, only 1 time is into something hard, so the don't wear a helmet? I don't think that one makes too much sense.

IT MAKES SENSE TO ME BECAUSE I DON'T WANT THAT INCREASE OF IMPACT IN THE 200 TIMES I THAT I DO CRASH ON THE WATER
ACTUALLY I'VE NEVER CRASHED MY HEAD INTO SOMETHING HARD WHILE HAVING MY LOT OF BEACH CRASHES, BEING TOWED 4 TIMES IN MY FIRST YEARS OF KITING, LONG TIME AGO.
BUT I KEEP CRASHING ON THE WATER.
SO THE RATIO IS CLOSER TO 1000:0

KiteschoolHolland wrote:

I taught kiteboarding to a traumatologist and his son. He works at emergencies in the hospital.
I gave him the choice to wear a helmet during lesson, and he declined.

One doctor thinks you shouldn't wear a helmet after you told him your flawed theory on increased displaced volume? I'd have to guess most doctors recommend helmets.

The topic of this thread is "doctors on helmets".
Here was a doctor, a traumatologist, in a kiting situation, deciding for himself and his son against using helmets.
As we don't have many kiting doctors in this thread, this should be a legitimate contribution.

His decision speaks more to me than your guessing that most doctors might recommend helmets for other people from behind their desk, without knowledge of kiteboarding conditions or research.

i'm not against helmets - i have plenty of them.
i'm for knowledgeable decisions, so i hope there will be research.

alexrider · **Posted:** Tue Apr 10, 2012 10:55 am

KiteschoolHolland wrote:

I'll put my replies in CAPS IN YOUR TEXT --- NO SCREAMING INTENDED
....
I'M FOR KNOWLEDGEABLE DECISIONS, SO I HOPE THERE WILL BE RESEARCH.

But deafening and distracting screams heard. Shame, because you were certainly right. :lol:

davesails7 · **Joined:** Sun Apr 01, 2007 7:36 pm **Posts:** 696

KiteschoolHolland wrote:

So the average of these 3 helmets means a 50 % increase in force on the neck.
Maybe this increase is lessened by a time delay.

IF A HELMET WAS DESIGNED JUST TO ABSORB, IT WOULD BE A PILLOW. THE HARD SURFACE IS THE BIGGEST, WHICH CAUSES A HUGE INCREASE OF POWER OF IMPACT.
I WOULD BE GRATEFUL FOR ANY SCIENCE DONE ON THIS, BECAUSE I'M NOT GOING TO RISK MY NECK ON JUST YOUR STATING THAT THE ABSORBING MAKES UP FOR THE INCREASE.

Helmets don't absorb energy? Under the hard surface is foam that absorbs the energy of an impact.

50% increase in force on your neck based on your calculation of helmet volume? Why throw a number like that out there when you know it's made up?

Everyone has the right to choose if they want to wear a helmet, but bringing up a 3 year old post to add flawed information isn't good for anybody.

RickI:"whether kiters use helmets and other safety gear is up to them to choose, hopefully on the basis of good information and careful consideration."

mede · **Joined:** Fri May 24, 2002 1:00 am **Posts:** 285

my 2cts:

I kite since more than 10 years, having reached a pretty decent level, especially in waves.
I ALWAYS wear a helmet!
Does it look stupid? Maybe, but why should I care... It's anyway in the eye of the observer only....
In freeride skiing and freeride mountain biking (the other two regular sports of mine), you look stupid if you don't wear a helmet...

Do helmets protect when kitesurfing? Of course... A month ago, I spent two weeks in Cape Verde for some nice wave-kiting. During the two weeks, I got hit three times on the head by my board when pushing it a bit too much and the wave closing out. Result: no worries, keep kiting.
At the same time, two fellow kiters got hurt because they did not use a helmet: One hit a wave ear first, needed to see the doctor because of the eardrum. Second crashed hard falling on his board, needed some stitches....
Both accidents would have been prevented by wearing a helmet... but the guys decided it did not look cool, and they were not taking risks anyway....

And by the way: when your hair get as scarce as mine :wink:

a helmet makes for a pretty decent sun screen

Doctors on Helmets

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