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 Post subject: Re: Who monitors the quality of production boards?
PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2012 6:16 pm 
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Your local experienced boardbuilder would build a board that would be strong, maybe a little bit heavier (15-20%) and for 1/3 for the price of the big brands.
This is the price to pay for competition in producing as everything has to be build with minimal costs. Even in such small niche-market like kiteraceboards this is now very obvious.


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 Post subject: Re: Who monitors the quality of production boards?
PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2012 7:11 pm 
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plasma180 wrote:
Hi Gunnar,

can you say me please the company who made the prefabricated boxes.

Thank you
Claudio

gmb13 wrote:
Quality control is done in the Factories and not even the Windsurfing industry has it completely under control.

Not even a big brand like North can get around it and they have a huge windsurfing company behind them with all the knowhow.

Although sometimes it is not the quality of the production that is the problem, it is the construction the Brands have chosen. Lets talk boxes. Almost all the Brands I have seen use pretty bad techniques for their fin boxes. They may be light, but they are not reinforced properly.

When I built my own raceboards, I used prefabricated boxes from Germany which where reinforced with a super hard waterproof shell of closed cell foam. Costs more, but will never leak and can take a hit.

The super light boxes that a lot of the production brands use are not reinforced and can only be reinforced up to a certain point when put in the board. It's no wonder that the boards are taking on water. My Aguera did the same last year. It was even so bad that my boxes shrunk on that board after I dried it out after the KTE Italy. I had to heat the boxes and force the fins in to get the right shape again. I hope Alex used a different technique this year.

Another thing I do notice however is that a lot of racers have no idea how to treat their boards. The main thing being the pressure valve.

If your board has spent the night in your garage in the cold and then you leave your board in your car standing at the beach and it heats up the Foam inside will expand. Then you dump it back into cold water and the foam shrinks. Of course the foam rips off from the laminate and you have a huge bubble or soft spot under the board. This is not the fault of the factory or the brand. It's yours.

When you store your board take out the screw. Only put it in when you are sure there is no huge temperature difference between the inside of the board and the surrounding water. It's best to try to keep the board in the shade or Boadbag and out of direct sun in conditions like that.

I'm sorry. Rant over.

In conclusion:

1) Most Kitebrands still need to learn what works and not with High Volume Sandwich construction

2) Most Kiter need to learn how handle and maintain their Raceboards

3) Racers need to accept that the boards are really fragile and always will be. just check out the windsurfing boards.

This is what strong boxes look like Image
--
Gunnar



Sure. Its a company from Bochum in Germany called Wave Splash.

--
Gunnar


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 Post subject: Re: Who monitors the quality of production boards?
PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2012 7:14 pm 
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swell wrote:
Your local experienced boardbuilder would build a board that would be strong, maybe a little bit heavier (15-20%) and for 1/3 for the price of the big brands.
This is the price to pay for competition in producing as everything has to be build with minimal costs. Even in such small niche-market like kiteraceboards this is now very obvious.


Not really unless you are really really good friends. Normal cost for a Sandwich Raceboard/ Windsurfboard is 1500 Euros or Dollars from Custom shapers.

But if you know one who would do it at 1/3 the cost and still make a living, tell him to get into the Kiteracing scene he would make a killing.


--
Gunnar


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 Post subject: Re: Who monitors the quality of production boards?
PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2012 7:14 pm 
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Quote:
Other brands that are made in the same factory have exactly the same problem but they do not really care about this. Their boards will be full of water after few hours in the water."


That's a pretty aggressive statement. I'm sure other brands do care as well, or else would be forced to. Does anyone happen to know which other brands use the same factory (IF it's indeed the case)? North? Royal?


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 Post subject: Re: Who monitors the quality of production boards?
PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2012 7:17 pm 
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lobodomar wrote:
Quote:
Other brands that are made in the same factory have exactly the same problem but they do not really care about this. Their boards will be full of water after few hours in the water."


That's a pretty aggressive statement. I'm sure other brands do care as well, or else would be forced to. Does anyone happen to know which other brands use the same factory (IF it's indeed the case)? North? Royal?


Yes North and Royal are having issues.


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 Post subject: Re: Who monitors the quality of production boards?
PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2012 7:42 pm 
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Joined: Tue May 10, 2011 12:27 pm
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gmb13 wrote:
plasma180 wrote:
Hi Gunnar,

can you say me please the company who made the prefabricated boxes.

Thank you
Claudio

gmb13 wrote:
Quality control is done in the Factories and not even the Windsurfing industry has it completely under control.

Not even a big brand like North can get around it and they have a huge windsurfing company behind them with all the knowhow.

Although sometimes it is not the quality of the production that is the problem, it is the construction the Brands have chosen. Lets talk boxes. Almost all the Brands I have seen use pretty bad techniques for their fin boxes. They may be light, but they are not reinforced properly.

When I built my own raceboards, I used prefabricated boxes from Germany which where reinforced with a super hard waterproof shell of closed cell foam. Costs more, but will never leak and can take a hit.

The super light boxes that a lot of the production brands use are not reinforced and can only be reinforced up to a certain point when put in the board. It's no wonder that the boards are taking on water. My Aguera did the same last year. It was even so bad that my boxes shrunk on that board after I dried it out after the KTE Italy. I had to heat the boxes and force the fins in to get the right shape again. I hope Alex used a different technique this year.

Another thing I do notice however is that a lot of racers have no idea how to treat their boards. The main thing being the pressure valve.

If your board has spent the night in your garage in the cold and then you leave your board in your car standing at the beach and it heats up the Foam inside will expand. Then you dump it back into cold water and the foam shrinks. Of course the foam rips off from the laminate and you have a huge bubble or soft spot under the board. This is not the fault of the factory or the brand. It's yours.

When you store your board take out the screw. Only put it in when you are sure there is no huge temperature difference between the inside of the board and the surrounding water. It's best to try to keep the board in the shade or Boadbag and out of direct sun in conditions like that.

I'm sorry. Rant over.

In conclusion:

1) Most Kitebrands still need to learn what works and not with High Volume Sandwich construction

2) Most Kiter need to learn how handle and maintain their Raceboards

3) Racers need to accept that the boards are really fragile and always will be. just check out the windsurfing boards.

This is what strong boxes look like Image
--
Gunnar



Sure. Its a company from Bochum in Germany called Wave Splash.

--
Gunnar



Thank you!!!


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 Post subject: Re: Who monitors the quality of production boards?
PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2012 7:50 pm 
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Al-Kite-A wrote:
lobodomar wrote:
Quote:
Other brands that are made in the same factory have exactly the same problem but they do not really care about this. Their boards will be full of water after few hours in the water."


That's a pretty aggressive statement. I'm sure other brands do care as well, or else would be forced to. Does anyone happen to know which other brands use the same factory (IF it's indeed the case)? North? Royal?


Yes North and Royal are having issues.


Not saying that the other don't have problems. I have the Royal (#7 serial) and so far I have had no problems other than a few pinholes on the top deck. But I do really take care not to overpressure my boards too much.

--
Gunnar


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 Post subject: Re: Who monitors the quality of production boards?
PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2012 8:50 pm 
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Joined: Wed Mar 24, 2004 6:14 pm
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Location: San Francisco
We have a few guys on the Royal boards here and they have those "pin holes" that sweat in the sun :)
It has not slowed them down yet.


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 Post subject: Re: Who monitors the quality of production boards?
PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2012 9:02 pm 
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Joined: Mon Apr 19, 2010 10:01 pm
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Location: Moscow
Hey all,

I know the shaper on Tenerife who could make the board for 900-1000 euro of better quality than RRD, Royal, etc.

What about pinholes just try to weight your board before and after riding and I believe that it will has more weight in the last case.

Best wishes,
Ivan


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 Post subject: Re: Who monitors the quality of production boards?
PostPosted: Fri Apr 20, 2012 6:52 am 
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MoscowKite wrote:
Hey all,

I know the shaper on Tenerife who could make the board for 900-1000 euro of better quality than RRD, Royal, etc.
....
Ivan


Still to expensive - ad a set of good fins (raceble, not sellable:) end you'll end up with a nice amount all together...

450-600EUR is what my boardbuilder could build a nice board for (whithout fins). But who cares - it's not production, so no official entry to events...


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