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 Post subject: Re: 3 kite race quiver for comp - what do you think?
PostPosted: Wed Apr 25, 2012 4:24 pm 
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Location: Maui
swell wrote:
Agree with most of your statement, but there has to be also a logical windspeed limit for a raceevent - in KTE 2011 it was 25 knots... I think its logical. I also would like to see someone "racing" in 35-40 knots on the one and only (biggest!) registred board!


We race the biggest board on Maui in 35-40 knots all the time but we use 7m and sometimes smaller kites.


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 Post subject: Re: 3 kite race quiver for comp - what do you think?
PostPosted: Wed Apr 25, 2012 5:08 pm 
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Alex is right. One can do it with the regular large race boards fine, it just requires a smaller kite.

as to the point of windrange in the kites...
Yes, I believe that the goal would be to push designers towards developing more range in to the kites. However, it hasn't shown to be possible to fill enough range yet with just 3 kites.
Old kites did not have more effective range for racing - you may have felt that way, but you weren't using them to race. In a race, the key point is performance. You're not just trying to survive, you're trying to beat other riders, and thus need a kite size with the optimum part of the wind range matching up with the winds for any given race.

Yes, you "can" ride a larger or smaller kite in a given wind, but you can't win with it. It also might not be safe in a racing setting.


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 Post subject: Re: 3 kite race quiver for comp - what do you think?
PostPosted: Sat May 12, 2012 2:20 pm 
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bottom line is “ our dream to have ONE design KITE for all conditions will remain a dream ;-( ? reality bites big time, big buck!


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 Post subject: Re: 3 kite race quiver for comp - what do you think?
PostPosted: Sat May 12, 2012 4:31 pm 
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The same situation applies to windsurf sails to some extent, in that the guy on the optimum size sail would have a big advantage. In the Olympic RSX class, the men have to use the same 9.5m sail from 3 knots to 30 knots.

Its probably possible to design a kite with the same windrange. One possibility would be a central batten and a fifth line so you could change the profile of the kite from a flattened arch to an m shape. I think if they really wanted a one design kite, they could probably get it.

I wouldn't like to see it happen, but the pressure will be there to go to one design eventually.


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 Post subject: Re: 3 kite race quiver for comp - what do you think?
PostPosted: Sun May 13, 2012 10:00 am 
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but it does not calculate for manufacturers why sell 1 kite when you can sell 3


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 Post subject: Re: 3 kite race quiver for comp - what do you think?
PostPosted: Sun May 13, 2012 10:43 am 
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when do you have to decide on your 3 kites? is it at the start of the season? or can you select your 3 a few days before the event?

either way it still seems very stupid to me.


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 Post subject: Re: 3 kite race quiver for comp - what do you think?
PostPosted: Sun May 13, 2012 8:06 pm 
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You may find that the wealthier countries can pay for their own design of 50 kites just for their team, with the lightest most expensive of materials.

That would kill off the 'production' philosophy.

Same with boards, get 30 made for your team.

That's why its likely to go to one design after Rio.


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 Post subject: Re: 3 kite race quiver for comp - what do you think?
PostPosted: Tue May 15, 2012 6:33 pm 
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Ok, here is the deal. 3 kites is definitely unsafe. Let me rationalize why:

As a racer, it is a requirement to have your biggest size (>16). Otherwise if the race committee decides to run races in sub 10 mph conditions, you simply can't participate. This can happen anywhere, I have used my 18 at Crissy many times. Using one choice on the big kite which you likely won't even use leaves you with only two more choices. In my case that leaves me with a tricky decision between my 13/11/9/7. All of these sizes have moments where they are absolutely the best choice.

For me, the 9 is nearly a requirement. This gives me the biggest range from 20-30 mph for someone my size. Now I am left to decide between the 13/11/7. The choice between 13/11 is a reasonable strategical choice, I am alright with that. So I will choose one of those sizes based on what I think about the venue.

Here is the problem. Everywhere can blow in the 30s, I know Sylt definitely did. Crissy does all the time, so does Hawaii, Australia, Florida. Heck San Diego can . . . If I don't have a 7 meter kite and they send us to race then I am going to go because I am competitive, but now safety is a big time issue. I know this happened to the production class last year in Sylt. I have heard there were guys on 10 meters in mid 30 conditions. Racing is dangerous enough without having to do that.

Here is my solution: make it a four kite rule, but require one of the kites is a (<8) size. That way every competitor has a small kite if it is needed. Then the three other sizes can be chosen from remaining sizes.
This would also encourage companies to build sizes with bigger gaps how about a 17-13-10-7?

The only other option is to put a wind maximum on our racing, just like yachties have. I.E >25 knots no racing. That would be terrible, the whole reason kiting is better is because we can race in 35 knots!!!

If there is not some sort of rule, then guys could be showing up with 10 kites, which would be ridiculous. I get that it needs to exist, but there needs to be a compromise that will allow us to safely race in extreme conditions.


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 Post subject: Re: 3 kite race quiver for comp - what do you think?
PostPosted: Tue May 15, 2012 6:36 pm 
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ronnie wrote:
You may find that the wealthier countries can pay for their own design of 50 kites just for their team, with the lightest most expensive of materials.

That would kill off the 'production' philosophy.

Same with boards, get 30 made for your team.

That's why its likely to go to one design after Rio.


It would be the poorer countries who want medals that would do that. The wealthy countries (United States, Europe, etc.) care about winning medals in real sports like gymnastics and track.

I wouldn't worry about that happening. I would be more worried about One Design = Monopoly = Poor Quality/High Price/Low Performance!


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 Post subject: Re: 3 kite race quiver for comp - what do you think?
PostPosted: Tue May 15, 2012 7:56 pm 
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chicken strap wrote:
ronnie wrote:
You may find that the wealthier countries can pay for their own design of 50 kites just for their team, with the lightest most expensive of materials.

That would kill off the 'production' philosophy.

Same with boards, get 30 made for your team.

That's why its likely to go to one design after Rio.


It would be the poorer countries who want medals that would do that. The wealthy countries (United States, Europe, etc.) care about winning medals in real sports like gymnastics and track.

I wouldn't worry about that happening. I would be more worried about One Design = Monopoly = Poor Quality/High Price/Low Performance!

The real question is would doing this help you? Sure you could make 30 for your team but would it be better then a AA CR69 or ML70?


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