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 Post subject: Re: 3 kite race quiver for comp - what do you think?
PostPosted: Tue May 15, 2012 9:41 pm 
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Are any of the top guys changing boards depending on expected conditions for the event? I was under the impression that they use the same board no matter what.

Do the top guys change fins depending on the expected conidtions? I can see having a slightly smaller fin set for when it is forecasted to blow 20+ for an entire event.


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 Post subject: Re: 3 kite race quiver for comp - what do you think?
PostPosted: Tue May 15, 2012 10:36 pm 
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gbleck wrote:
chicken strap wrote:
ronnie wrote:
You may find that the wealthier countries can pay for their own design of 50 kites just for their team, with the lightest most expensive of materials.

That would kill off the 'production' philosophy.

Same with boards, get 30 made for your team.

That's why its likely to go to one design after Rio.


It would be the poorer countries who want medals that would do that. The wealthy countries (United States, Europe, etc.) care about winning medals in real sports like gymnastics and track.

I wouldn't worry about that happening. I would be more worried about One Design = Monopoly = Poor Quality/High Price/Low Performance!

The real question is would doing this help you? Sure you could make 30 for your team but would it be better then a AA CR69 or ML70?


I would expect them to do extensive GPS back to back testing to come up with the best designs for the conditions they can expect at Rio, and if they have prototypes that are faster, they get 30 of each made before the Olympics.


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 Post subject: Re: 3 kite race quiver for comp - what do you think?
PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2012 8:39 am 
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ronnie wrote:
I would expect them to do extensive GPS back to back testing to come up with the best designs for the conditions they can expect at Rio, and if they have prototypes that are faster, they get 30 of each made before the Olympics.


No way that this will happen, each top rider has his own brand that pushes for using his board and sails, and what really make the difference in racing is the feeling with your board, it takes long time to achieve (trim, fins...) and for sure you'll not change your board before an important event even if the new one is little better.

Box rule is the way for the boards, one design is the the worst choice for a class, poor quality + old technology = less fun = less riders in the class races

For the sails: 3 sails rule + "safety sail" (small size under 9) always allowed with no restriction over 20 knots


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 Post subject: Re: 3 kite race quiver for comp - what do you think?
PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2012 8:49 am 
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The box rule is maybe more open than people think.

There is no limit on kite size, so we may see kites up to eg. 30 metres.

There may be 120 litre boards with a single fin for light winds and flat water.

Could there be a board with a 50 cm hydrofoil fin and a Wind-In-Ground-effect hull shaped like a wing that rides on a cushion of air? There is a Hypersonic windsurf board that has deep concaves and uses air forced under the hull to keep it planing.

They might find that a 50 cm wide 3-fin board is faster in 30 knots and choppy water.

And rules-wise, in light wind is there a rule that would stop a kiter forcing a competitors kite down in the window until it dropped from the sky?

In the Olympics, as long as the rules allow it its legal.
They will set the final rules at the end of this year - hopefully they will have the rules tight enough.


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 Post subject: Re: 3 kite race quiver for comp - what do you think?
PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2012 8:52 am 
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Silver_surfer wrote:
ronnie wrote:
I would expect them to do extensive GPS back to back testing to come up with the best designs for the conditions they can expect at Rio, and if they have prototypes that are faster, they get 30 of each made before the Olympics.


No way that this will happen, each top rider has his own brand that pushes for using his board and sails, and what really make the difference in racing is the feeling with your board, it takes long time to achieve (trim, fins...) and for sure you'll not change your board before an important event even if the new one is little better.

Box rule is the way for the boards, one design is the the worst choice for a class, poor quality + old technology = less fun = less riders in the class races

For the sails: 3 sails rule + "safety sail" (small size under 9) always allowed with no restriction over 20 knots


That is largely true if the brands are running things.

If the system is based on a countries Olympic squad and the squad developing its equipment, then its a whole different ballgame.
If they develop the best prototypes, they would have them made to production rules early enough for the squad to get used to them before the final selection trial.

The US Sailing Olympic budget for 2007 was approximately $3.1 million with over 85% earmarked for athletes and athlete support, which shows the sort of money spent on the athletes.


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 Post subject: Re: 3 kite race quiver for comp - what do you think?
PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2012 5:32 pm 
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ronnie wrote:
The box rule is maybe more open than people think.

There is no limit on kite size, so we may see kites up to eg. 30 metres.

There may be 120 litre boards with a single fin for light winds and flat water.

Could there be a board with a 50 cm hydrofoil fin and a Wind-In-Ground-effect hull shaped like a wing that rides on a cushion of air? There is a Hypersonic windsurf board that has deep concaves and uses air forced under the hull to keep it planing.

They might find that a 50 cm wide 3-fin board is faster in 30 knots and choppy water.

And rules-wise, in light wind is there a rule that would stop a kiter forcing a competitors kite down in the window until it dropped from the sky?

In the Olympics, as long as the rules allow it its legal.

They will set the final rules at the end of this year - hopefully they will have the rules tight enough.

There is a rule for kite size (19), which is probably bigger than it needs to be. There is a bottom end of windspeed <6 knots where you cannot fly a kite while moving, and above 9 knots a 19 doesn't go upwind well for someone under 220. The IKA has the rules for our boards and kites posted on their website. Kites are in the Olympics as a part of the Yacht Racing Discipline. The class was selected under the current IKA rules, which could be changed. But if anything things will get stricter not more open.

Just to reiterate. 3 kites with one safety kite is the best compromise to the topic of this thread!


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 Post subject: Re: 3 kite race quiver for comp - what do you think?
PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2012 7:44 pm 
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They dropped the limit on kite size.

http://www.internationalkiteboarding.or ... Itemid=103

Sorry for my wandering off topic :oops: - back to the 3 kites rule :thumb:


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 Post subject: Re: 3 kite race quiver for comp - what do you think?
PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2012 5:27 pm 
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ronnie wrote:
They dropped the limit on kite size.

http://www.internationalkiteboarding.or ... Itemid=103

Sorry for my wandering off topic :oops: - back to the 3 kites rule :thumb:

I stand corrected. Interesting when you read the rest of the minutes from that meeting, that we could have done away with both the kite # limits, and the board production rule. That would have been very cool.


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 Post subject: Re: 3 kite race quiver for comp - what do you think?
PostPosted: Sat Jun 02, 2012 8:16 am 
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ronnie wrote:
- back to the 3 kites rule :thumb:


I think the discussion seems to be over after the Rio decision.
ISAF was happy about max 3 kites quiver.
To be honest I happy too after first two Polish Cup events where we had winds in the range of 4-30kts.
18,13 and 9m made a sweet and comfortable combination (all of them rigged on custom bars)
I did not hear anybody complaining that was missing 4th kite.


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