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 Post subject: Re: Always lines "on" on all your kites ??
PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2012 4:01 am 
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I always detach my lines on my LEI's but will try to leave them attached since I have a separate bar for each kite and it really seems more logical. Can someone explain to me the issue of having twisted lines? I know if you attach the lines incorrectly it can really screw you up, but if the lines are twisted but attached correctly, can't you just easily self land and re- attach? I've attached my lines incorrectly before and didnt notice the Kite Reacting any differently. I'm sure if you ride with the lines twisted it will wear the lines really quickly but other than that I don't see any issue. Please enlighten me :thumb:


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 Post subject: Re: Always lines "on" on all your kites ??
PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2012 4:51 am 
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Location: The Naki
my bars stay on my foils and come off my lei's.

why? i am a slave to peer pressure and am suprised i don't wear boardshorts over my wetties...

to be fair i like to rinse the grit and sand off the bar which is usually easier to do with detached. if you leave it attached then you have a wet bar with a dry kite.


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 Post subject: Re: Always lines "on" on all your kites ??
PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2012 9:18 am 
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darippah wrote:
I always detach my lines on my LEI's but will try to leave them attached since I have a separate bar for each kite and it really seems more logical. Can someone explain to me the issue of having twisted lines? I know if you attach the lines incorrectly it can really screw you up, but if the lines are twisted but attached correctly, can't you just easily self land and re- attach? I've attached my lines incorrectly before and didnt notice the Kite Reacting any differently. I'm sure if you ride with the lines twisted it will wear the lines really quickly but other than that I don't see any issue. Please enlighten me :thumb:


Its likely that some kites are much simpler to avoid problems than others - like a 4 line no-bridle kite being the simplest.

I have an IDS Crossbow. I start off laying the kite out uninflated, connect the lines and check everything. Fold the kite in from each side toward the middle.

The way I wind the lines on the bar is specific to this kite.
If I can drop the kite on the water, I pull the centelines down to activate the IDS, so I am then holding the bottom of the two front lines where they attach about 2.5m from the bar. I hold that at the centre of the bar and fold one rear line in to the centre and hold it there too. Then I wind the doubled over 2.5m of powerline/trimstrap etc around that half of the bar. Then I wind all 4 lines on the bar figure 8 style until I get to the bridle of the kite and tie a couple of half hitches.
That's a good pack-down method and it also means it can be reversed for drift launching.

So I use that same method when I am winding the lines up with the uninflated kite.
I fold the uninflated kite and put it in the bag and the bar goes in the usual pocket of the kitebag.
The most important thing is to avoid tangles in the unwound lines/bridle and make sure that the bar never gets to pass between any of the lines. You need to always be paying attention to avoid that. If the bar goes though the bridle and you self launched, you could be in trouble.

If it goes through the lines its usually not so dangerous and it depends on the circumstances as to what ways it can be sorted.

I would say its a more risky way to do it than attaching the kite every time, but both ways require that you dont make any mistakes. To me the biggest risk with the always connected method is that you are more likely to get complacent and maybe let the bar pass between lines or get a tangle in a line.
It requires you to stick to the procedure and pay attention to handling the kite and bar. You also have to check that any pulleys are moving freely and notice if there is anything wrong with the bridle and then the lines.
I wouldn't say its easier or simpler - just different and its safe enough if you do it right.


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 Post subject: Re: ALWAYS lines "ON" on all your kites ??
PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2012 11:19 am 
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OzBungy wrote:
SupaEZ wrote:
...
1-Leaving lines ON makes "ALL" my 200+ self- launches per year 100% certain :thumb:

2-I have total comfort and confidence even if i totally rush to get out (i skip ZERO of MY steps)

....


None of that has anything to do with leaving your lines on. It has everything to do with having a reliable system and following it and checking stuff.

I take my lines off, you leave your lines on. I self-launch/land almost exclusively and I think I have had to abort maybe twice in 1000 launches. I get out on the water faster than anybody else I kite with and I daresay at least as fast as you.

I did try the Fo method (my kite mates uses that one. attach the front lines and wind out/walk back/attach rears). It works ok. I still ended up just dropping the lines, wind out and walk back attach all lines left to right. I still get set up faster than my kite mate.

I think leaving the bar attached introduces at least as much complexity as it removes. I did it a bit when I rode foils, I do not do it at all with LEI.


Very true 8)

I occasionally leave the lines attached, but only if I go from one spot to another with the same kite on the same day and keep the struts inflated.

If you do it systematically, it does not matter what method you use IMO.

Agree fully - the complexity leaving lines on or not, are about the same.

Well - I find it is just a tad safer to attach the lines every time, but maybe just me :thumb:


You have to walk the same number of times between bar and kite no matter what, if selflaunching.

You also have to inspect/free your pulleys every time, so you dont really save time there either.
Only small gain is you dont have to "unwind" your lines and put them on the pigtails - but this is IMO such a fast thing to do, so it outweighs the lost flexibility when rigging and especially de-rigging with lines on.

Example:

With lines attached -
1. Pump the kite up.
2. Walk the bar/lines out (this is first walk kite-bar).
3. Put the bar on the dog stake.
4. Walk back to the kite and check pulleys/lines (the second walk).
5. Put the kite on the side.
6. Walk back to the bar and start (the third walk).

Without lines attached -
1. Pump the kite up.
2. Walk the bar/lines out (this is first walk kite-bar).
3. Put the bar on the dog stake.
4. Walk to the kite while unwinding the lines, and attach to kite pigtails and check pulleys (the second walk).
5. Put the kite on the side.
6. Walk back to the bar and start (the third walk).


So almost the same "hazzle", just the pigtail attaching as difference.

When rigging down though - it is FAR easier when you take the lines off IMO.

As you have much more freedom to lift your kite, and walk it to "any place" where you want to take the air out and let it deflate slowly while you wind your bar up.
This is way more hazzle if you want to keep the lines attached :-?


So ups and downs - but I have chosen, like you OzBungy, to take my lines off, because of the added freedom and 100% sure they are not twisted.

:D Peter


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 Post subject: Re: Always lines "on" on all your kites ??
PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2012 1:02 pm 
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This is how i do it:

Put the folded kite on beach with your back to the wind
Take the bar/line from atop the kite and put on sand
Unroll the windward wingtip toward the wind direction walking backwards
When 1/2 of kite is unrolled load with sand in kite near wingtip

Go to center of kite (1/2 unrolled) and pump it completely (the other 1/2 unrolls itself as you pump)
You are pumping the kite on its back (belly up) the whole time & never flip it LE down)

Remove just enough sand to keep kite down safely
Grab your bar and you should only attach your safety at this point
(Remember that your lines have 25 ft of slack at this point)

Walk around the front of kite that is lined up with the wind (trailing edge parallel to wind flow)

As you unwind and you are still close to trailing edge shake out all bridles (prevent pulley snags)

You are unwinding your lines going at a 90 degrees angle to the wind (not downwind or upwind)

When lines are all stretched out if you have 1 or 2 twists just simply spin the bar appropriately

Attach into the chicken loop and donkey stick
Depower the kite according to conditions
Walk upwind to a 45 degrees angle to the kite (you are now ready to go :D )

Walk backwards a bit and launch by focusing at pulling bar more on the leeward wingtip of kite
Do that with your bar half way out on the depower line
The kite will take off perfectly in the wind window :thumb:

The kite always stayed on it's back (no flipping)
I only walked once (away from the kite)
ZERO total time wasted


Now that is just me and my system
I respect all other systems of launching..................but i am always the fastest in & out of water

.............................................................. :surf: :sun: ...........................................................


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 Post subject: Re: Always lines "on" on all your kites ??
PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2012 6:35 pm 
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THAT is a super fast way Supa :thumb:

Unfortunately not really possible at most our spots - as we often dont have sand, and particulary at the best wavespots, it is very often rocks and shells and sharp driftwood on the shore - so you can NOT move the lines nor let the kite slide ever so little.

So the dogstake method is the only way to launch usually, and you are also certain to be able to get ashore and land safe too even if quite powered - which you can not without the stake (huge risk of destroying your kite) in such "harsh" spots :naughty:

Always interesting to hear how others do it typically 8)

:D Peter


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 Post subject: Re: Always lines "on" on all your kites ??
PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2012 9:59 pm 
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SupaEZ wrote:
This is how i do it:

#1-Take the bar/line from atop the kite and put on sand.....

#2-Grab your bar and you should only attach your safety at this point....

#3-Walk around the front of kite that is lined up with the wind (trailing edge parallel to wind flow)



Just wanted to explain better # 1-.... on sand in front of leading edge on either side of intake valve

Also #2... this point (this is optional but safer in event wind shifted/gusted crazy suddenly)

And #3 Walking around the windward wingtip because so far all you have done (pump + grab bar)
was performed in front of LE

With this method you "only walk once away from kite" then angle yourself 45 degrees for take off

The kite will not slide at all doing a launch that way (so zero abrasion)

Same exact method is used when there is no sand with the use of a sandbag

In case the sand is very hard packed just scrape some loose sand with the "flat base" of the pump
....................(i knew there had to be a special purpose for that flat base :lol: )

............................................................. :surf: :sun: :pump: ............................................


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 Post subject: Re: Always lines "on" on all your kites ??
PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2012 4:33 am 
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Looks like I'll have to make a video after all !
Weird how simplicity is not at all in the human nature.
Nico


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 Post subject: Re: Always lines "on" on all your kites ??
PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2012 7:17 am 
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Liquid Force have 2 velcros on one of the wing tips in order to hold the bar once you wind up the lines.

Look closely on the left wingtip:
http://www.sbckiteboard.com/uploads/Ima ... y-Side.jpg

In my point of view that leaves the bar with salt / water and if not used in 1-2 days it will become smelly and probably rusty parts since it will not breath at all...other than that it works smoothly when done correctly.


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 Post subject: Re: Always lines "on" on all your kites ??
PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2012 9:53 pm 
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Nico wrote:
Looks like I'll have to make a video after all !
Weird how simplicity is not at all in the human nature.
Nico


Nico i bet i've met my match at launching tube kites Supa fast :D
Too bad we live so far away from each other....
....we could have a fun friendly showdown and sell the instructional video :thumb:


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