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New to forum, help please

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robertovillate
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Re: New to forum, help please

Postby robertovillate » Mon Jun 04, 2012 5:53 pm

Brent4336 wrote:
frankm1960 wrote:
If you go to your first lesson never having flown a kite before that might not be such a bad thing.


Good luck.



Really? IMHO its all about kite control. tons of people have loads of boardsports experience and it does eventually come into play, but at first its all about kite control.

Not sure how time spent on a trainer or any small traction kite can be a negative.


I agree. About 25% of my students come into lessons with some trainer kite experience (i.e. good kite control, good intuitive feel for steering the kite, basic understanding of wind window, comfortable with the pull of the kite, etc). Without exception these people progress faster. In fact it should be every new kiters goal to fly a trainer kite until they are bored out of their mind and can fly it instinctively without looking at it in a wide variety of conditions.

About 10% of my former students had wakeboarding experience, and many of them were astute enough to get a trainer kite. They progress the fastest for sure. People with snowboarding experience do pretty well too if they have had trainer kite experience.

In any case "kite control" is the #1 priority no matter what the relatable board skills are. I tell students that it would be a waste of time to try to get them onto a board until they have the prerequisite kite skills AND safety skills (QR/leash release, water safety, self rescue, etc.). I make these comments with well over 500 lessons in my past including having taught with C kites from 2004 and with the most recent LEI's currently on the market)

I find it to be an interesting misconception when people say "just use the instructors gear so you can crash his stuff and not yours". We do use my gear MOST of the time, however sometimes it's very useful for the student to have at least a partial lesson on their own gear to familiarize themselves more with his own safety systems, kite characteristics (flying, launching, landing, etc). But in fact, by the time I am done teaching with the trainer kite and some supervised flying/body dragging with an appropriately large LEI my students rarely crash the kites violently "tomahawk style", if at all, because they have learned good enough kite control not to, and also understand when releasing the bar is a good alternative, (which obviously was not possible with the old C kites).

It's possible to learn by yourself - but it really does not make sense anymore when there are lots of good instructors, with the risks of injury, with the risk of causing other harm that can lead to bans. I wish people would not encourage the idea of self teaching for that reason alone. It's a good investment (to take lessons) - something that you will value for the rest of your life.

frankm1960
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Re: New to forum, help please

Postby frankm1960 » Mon Jun 04, 2012 7:36 pm

@Brent...

I'm not sure how you made that connection... please read my post again.

I never said "previous kite flying experience is a negative thing"... YOU said that.

Stop twisting my words around.

I'll repeat.... if he doesn't buy a trainer kite and goes into his first lesson without any kite flying experience it MIGHT not be such a BAD thing. That doesn't mean having some experience is a negative thing :) They are quite different.

In any case why should he invest in a trainer kite and learn how to fly before hand?... the purpose of the school is to teach him how to fly a kite :) That said if he does buy a trainer kite and learn how to fly it before hand then he's one up on the lessons and 300 bucks in the hole :)

I'm just throwing out some options for the guy. Gimme a break.

6 of 1 half dozen of the other... always comes down to the flat stick as they say :)

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Brent4336
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Re: New to forum, help please

Postby Brent4336 » Mon Jun 04, 2012 7:58 pm

Easy, no attack on you, I simply quoted your post.

I'm sure the guy can find a decent trainer for under 300 and besides, it seems to be the assumption that he's done with it forever once he takes a single lesson. Lets face it, he not takin more than one! That alone took 5 pages of bitching.

A lesson is just that. Kind of an orientation to what you need to teach yourself and what order to do it in and a whole bunch of key safety and weather considerations that most people dont have a clue about when first getting into the sport.

Unless you take a full week of lessons, your not exactly a kiter at the end of the day. You go and learn a bunch and then it takes weeks to months to years depending on the individual to actually go out and practice those skill until they are instinct.

Im my experience... again this is not an attack on anyone... the cost of a trainer kite is seldom wasted.
Last edited by Brent4336 on Mon Jun 04, 2012 8:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.

redman333
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Re: New to forum, help please

Postby redman333 » Mon Jun 04, 2012 8:15 pm

NJOY wrote:
Mr_Weetabix wrote:
redman333 wrote:Also this was never an issue with money more so an issue of I wanted to be able to say I did it myself. I'll be honest even though I've decided to do lessons, inside of me going to be burning to say the heck with it and buy a kite and try on my own but I'm trusting you guys here and hopefully I'm happy in the end.


Laughingman wrote:I nominate redman33, there is no doubt that this dumbass will cause some sort of fall out.

Redman33, you are a dumbass. Please do some other sport. We don't want you, you are not welcome.... Go away.!

Dude, read the guy's posts before engaging in name calling.

I've read yours. Dumbass. :D

Redman, welcome. There's plenty of stuff to teach yourself after you've covered the basics in lessons - you'll enjoy it more if you're confident that you can get yourself out of trouble and avoid collateral damage when it all goes sideways. (And it will. Oh yes.)


Looks like I did not read that one post where Redman said he was going to take a lesson. Oops Sorry, Redman! My bad. I am glad that Mr. Weetabix posted this and Redman, yes, you are very welcome to our community. What I have noticed about new kiters is that the ones who get out there almost every day and ask a lot of questions, seem to get over the learner humps faster. Good luck and I hope there are many helpful people around you when you kite to get you through the rough spots!

No problem. I am here for advice and I am open to any, except probably the one that that I should have been the most open to which was for lessons. After all of you have so passionately voiced your opinions it's made me rethink my decision on lessons. Thank you. I was in the marine corps so the harshness does not bother me one bit.

I am going to order my trainer today when I get off work. I won't have a whole lot of time to practice with it before my lesson during the July 4th weekend but it's better than nothing.

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Brent4336
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Re: New to forum, help please

Postby Brent4336 » Mon Jun 04, 2012 8:29 pm

Been at this about 9 years now.

I still have my little beat up 2m airush trainer.

markchatwin
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Re: New to forum, help please

Postby markchatwin » Mon Jun 04, 2012 9:20 pm

Redman you'll be very happy that you got a leg up on that first lesson by getting a trainer. Here's a couple on "ikitesurf" that may fit the bill.

http://www.ikitesurf.com/classifieds.iws?db=kiteboards

http://www.ikitesurf.com/classifieds.iws?db=kiteboards

I had lessons with a "mentor" and though not the most professional instruction the basic safety aspects were covered. However I crashed the kite a lot when water starting and there were plenty of Supermans. The two things that would have made me progress much quicker would have been:
1. To be on modern equipment
2. A lot of open space in front of me with relatively flat water and/or jet ski support with open space.

Because I kind of was "left on my own" to figure it out (once my mentor felt I was safe) I flailed in onshore wind with crashing waves and people in the way. I never put them in danger but I could not get any long rides. Once I got up I had to bail since I couldn't stay upwind. I remember cursing "Why does that person have to swim right where I want to go? God D#*^t" I also was flying a buddy's 14m Sonic without the stock bar and I didn't fly right. Also being on a 14m kite when I should have been on a 12m kite, etc... These are all things that pro lessons take out of the picture...

markchatwin
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Re: New to forum, help please

Postby markchatwin » Mon Jun 04, 2012 9:25 pm

I see my links just take you to the homepage. Just click on "kites" and then click on "size" and it will sort out from the smallest to largest. Checkout the Slingshot B3 and the Ballistic trainer... They're relatively current...

redman333
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Re: New to forum, help please

Postby redman333 » Mon Jun 04, 2012 9:28 pm

robertovillate wrote:
Brent4336 wrote:
frankm1960 wrote:
If you go to your first lesson never having flown a kite before that might not be such a bad thing.


Good luck.



Really? IMHO its all about kite control. tons of people have loads of boardsports experience and it does eventually come into play, but at first its all about kite control.

Not sure how time spent on a trainer or any small traction kite can be a negative.


I agree. About 25% of my students come into lessons with some trainer kite experience (i.e. good kite control, good intuitive feel for steering the kite, basic understanding of wind window, comfortable with the pull of the kite, etc). Without exception these people progress faster. In fact it should be every new kiters goal to fly a trainer kite until they are bored out of their mind and can fly it instinctively without looking at it in a wide variety of conditions.

About 10% of my former students had wakeboarding experience, and many of them were astute enough to get a trainer kite. They progress the fastest for sure. People with snowboarding experience do pretty well too if they have had trainer kite experience.

In any case "kite control" is the #1 priority no matter what the relatable board skills are. I tell students that it would be a waste of time to try to get them onto a board until they have the prerequisite kite skills AND safety skills (QR/leash release, water safety, self rescue, etc.). I make these comments with well over 500 lessons in my past including having taught with C kites from 2004 and with the most recent LEI's currently on the market)

I find it to be an interesting misconception when people say "just use the instructors gear so you can crash his stuff and not yours". We do use my gear MOST of the time, however sometimes it's very useful for the student to have at least a partial lesson on their own gear to familiarize themselves more with his own safety systems, kite characteristics (flying, launching, landing, etc). But in fact, by the time I am done teaching with the trainer kite and some supervised flying/body dragging with an appropriately large LEI my students rarely crash the kites violently "tomahawk style", if at all, because they have learned good enough kite control not to, and also understand when releasing the bar is a good alternative, (which obviously was not possible with the old C kites).

It's possible to learn by yourself - but it really does not make sense anymore when there are lots of good instructors, with the risks of injury, with the risk of causing other harm that can lead to bans. I wish people would not encourage the idea of self teaching for that reason alone. It's a good investment (to take lessons) - something that you will value for the rest of your life.

Alright guys, help me out again here. I called real about the lessons and they say it's $450 for a 3 hour block and I should do 3 of them that will get me to where I need to be or I can sign up for the 3 day camp for $1250. Both will do the same thing. He also said that one 3 hour lesson will get me to the point of standing up on the kite and that will be sufficient if I just want the basics.

Is this a good price or should I look around a bit

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Brent4336
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Re: New to forum, help please

Postby Brent4336 » Mon Jun 04, 2012 10:02 pm

you should never stand on your kite. :wink:

SupaEZ
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Re: New to forum, help please

Postby SupaEZ » Mon Jun 04, 2012 10:07 pm

Hello redman333...you sure had lots of replies since june 1st.... it is a hot topic for many of us

My questions are once you have your 4th july weekend "go at it".......

Do you live close to kitable water? Or is it a long drive?

How often do you think you can practice what you have learned ? (before you forget it)

If you work all week do you have time for a session after or before work almost every day?

Will it be weekends only to practice? (52 times to 104 times a year = best scenario)

You see....... practicing a lot..... "and correctly" is what it takes....

Please learn about the wind and why it is windy on that particular day.
Find out what causes "it" as you set-up your gear to go out
Get familiar with onshore,side onshore,side shore,side offshore and offshore type winds

Learn to anticipate the wind picking up or dying out
Become a weatherman to anticipate everything ....learn to understand and :heartface: isobars

Check the radar for approaching storms for possible 180 degrees windshifts before you go out

Safety for you and others is important......."staying out of trouble just as important"

Come in BEFORE danger hits.....

Most people who put themselves in danger usually stay on the water and extra 5-10 minutes

Have a constant 360 degrees watch on the skies,clouds and listen for thunder,look for lightning

Practice on land letting "go" the bar....and quick releasing many times to see how fast you can do it

............. :surf: :sun: ...............................................................................................


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