Hey guys new to the site, hopefully you can help me out with a questions I have.

I Kited on an Airush 16m Flow on a 4 line bar for about 3 years before I had my first real accident and I pretty much hung it up after that. Havent done anything besides fly the kite in a field on a light day to try and get some confidence back. Basically I'm back at zero, and I'm still terrified of my kite. It was a C design that I fought with and never really got comfortable on in the first place, so i'm thinking i'll sell it and pick up something newer and less blood stained.

I'm graduating this year and since i'm no longer playing ball for the university the bug hit me again. I want back out, but im not sure where to start. My qustion is as follows,

When I kited the C design was still king the only other option being Foil. Now with the new Bow/Hybrid designs and comprehensive bar design (releases that look like they work a lot better than mine did) I'm not sure where to start. My research tells me that the 5 line bar is the safest, (paramount for me now) but that the 5th line can behave erratically and sometimes even destroy the kite, while the new bow designs are much more stable and have a greater depower ability thus minimizing the need of a fifth line.

Im kind of stuck, I would like the safety factor of the fifth line but not if there is a legitimate possibility of destroying my 1800$ investment in a tangle up. Anybody wanna weigh in? 5 VS 4 line Bow/hybrid kites?

The kites that seem to suit me are the North Rebel/Fuse 14, or an LF Envy 14. Both apparently rock solid, stable kites with huge ranges and good construction.

I think that at this point it might come down to personal preference. 5th line could still be considered the gold standard on safety but the LF bar and other bars that have a mini fifth are 99% as safe - you're much more likely to get in trouble from some other form of operator error than to have a situation where the 5th line would have saved you problems while the mini 5th couldn't.

Mini fifth operates very similar to a 5th line but kills to single flying line rather than a center line. If you are not riding with a stopper ball the bar will end up fairly far away from you and you may end your session or spend some time on the beach untangling your lines. Not your first choice if you are expecting to hit QR and then put program back together painlessly. LF and many other brands also have center line kill option - easy to reload and relaunch, but the kite is still pulling a little (the kill is not 90% on the bigger sizes as most companies claim it is). Also it doesn't solve your problem if you have a bridle wrap or similar foul up on launch.

My program for the last several years using this system is attach to mini-5th during launch and land, or any other higher risk situations where there might be a downwind obstacle, switch to center line kill for all riding where errors are less immediately dangerous.

5th line can become a problem when the kite goes into waves, when a kite inverts from underinflation or gusty winds, and I have seen the 5th line systems get snarled up in the water and become unable to relaunch. I don't think that's common but I have seen it with a rebel.

So if your flying area is not typically gusty and you have a gauge on your pump and you aren't going to be in big waves, the rebel might be the kite for you. Everyone I know who flies one is happy with it and it's been a popular kite with few major changes for a lot of years, setting a standard with the QR.

Not familiar with the fuse.

LF bar is excellent in my opinion, if you like below the bar depower. Well marked, mini 5th and center line kill that's easy to switch between, OS handles if you need them. Didn't think much of the envy in bigger sizes, seemed to backstall in hard turns even when properly sheeted and inflated.

If you're scared and have good shallow water spend some time killing your choice of kites from waist to chest deep water in moderate winds. Hope you get over it - kiting got a lot safer since you last did it.

You don't need 5 lines, kites are super safe now just drop the bar unless you only ride super overpowered like most people on this board seem to do.

Sounds like you need to take a few lessons

Lots and Lots of GOOD kites to be had on the market now.
One thing you may want to do before purchasing one though :

Use the search box at bottom Left, and find out if your
choice in kits has any other problems, (like bladder valves
that Don't like to stay stuck to the Bladders, exc). Some brands
have Big problems with this !!!

Example : type in (Bladder Valves), and see what Ya get.

Bille

I learned to kite on a North Rebel, 14m2. It's very stable, predictable, forgiving to beginner mistakes (you can hog the bar), has a _very_ good safety and no bridle .

4line safety works by having a bridle system that flips the kite on the back. It's more sensitive
to line stretches or not optimal bridle and can happen (did happen) that it doesn't work. It most definetly not 99% as good as a 5th line. More like 80%.

5th line can wrap around the LE of a kite, then you can't relaunch but need to release safety and swim to shore. It never happened to me as I don't jump downwind and I don't surf in waves (yet) .

Whatever you decide:
1. take lessons (even just to build confidence)
2. choose a _freeride_ kite. They are usually tuned to turn slowly and have good depower
3. buy the equipment your instructor is recommending

Safety was the biggest factor for me when choosing my kites.

I didn't try any of the kites but based it on how they operated and reports on whether they worked or not.

I decided on the Cabrinha IDS system.
I'm happy with it as a freeride kite system and that is what I use it for.

You do have to make sure the pulleys are operating and check for wear.

If the kite is in the U position downwind near its upper wind limit, it can lift up and down in the air with enough pull to make it a bit difficult to wind the lines on the bar (you may have to turn the bar end over end to wind the lines).
Its nearly always possible to avoid the U position by dropping the kite to one side of the window and it then flips over into the parked position.
Its close to a 5th line in the amount of depower it gives and you can also see 5th line kites lifting up and down in a similar way to the IDS kite in the U position.

Another thing I like about it is that it depowers to the two front lines, so there shouldn't be any kite looping when the IDS is operated. The kite also depowers on the IDS line which is only 2.5m long, so after you wind the 2.5m of IDS line on the bar, you can wind all 4 lines on at the same time, which lessens the risk of getting lines wrapped around you during a pack-down.

I have Crossbows, but the Switchblade is a more popular kite and the IDS will work the same on it. I'd suggest going for the 2010 or later as they improved the bar and IDS system significantly from 2009.

There are many other kites with good safety and they may have other features you would like, but in terms of safety, I think the IDS on the Crossbow and Switchblade is worth adding to the possibles.

1. well? i don't know... i learned myself, and i think if you smart enough you are able to learn yourself.
2. agreed
3. yeah, i don't think so. 95% instructors i know recommend the brand they affiliated to, even if given kite does not suit you best.

mloewen1, it is difficult to suggest you the kite without knowing your weight and conditions. what year was your airush flow?

newest freeride airush kites don't need 5th line, flagging is good enough on their 4-lines kites.

Quit being worried so much, any modern kite you buy will satisfy you, ozone, naish, liquid force, north, cabrinha, slingshot, even a new airush, they are all good. Even modern C kites are ages more advanced than that old kite with twice as much depower and much safer quick releases in a modern C.

My advice is instead of deciding on a brand right now, go get a demo from a local dealer you will be so surprised at how much safer the sport is now, and if you buy from a local dealer you will be able to get a lot better product support than if you go mail order.

5th line has a reputation of being safer, while 4th line kites have a reputation of being better in waves (no bowtie), but in my opinion these are just tendencies not absolute rules.

Alright since it was mentioned,

Fully plan on lessons, in fact already started.
The only guy that teaches in my town is the dealer so definite home town support

Stats:

198 Cm
100 kg
=Big rider
med/Heavy wind (~20=50km) no surf
the Airush was a 2004, accident was 2006

dont want to be a drip but kiting is not much safer than it was years ago.

accidents are caused by users, not kites.
reasons for accidents are rigging errors, failure to know local weather patterns and current weather systems, choosing poor riding, launching landing areas, and riders doing foolish things.

Ive had scary things happen to me on C kites and on SLE's. All the bells and whistles wont save you unless you're quick enough to hit the release, and then does it work or is it wrapped or trapped?

New kites make learning to ride easier and give a rider a more comfortable wind range than older c kites, this will allow you more time on the water and more experience. More experience should make you a safer kiter by giving you more time on the water and more experiences to better know how to react to different situations.

Money cannot buy a fool proof kite, only a fool would think that.

Get a kite, talk to the locals and watch and learn and then get back out there, BUT NEVER THINK THAT A SAFETY SYSTEM WILL SAVE YOU, Only you can make the right choices to keep yourself safe

scott klandl