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 Post subject: Raceboard total weight? Is Lightest the Best?
PostPosted: Sat Jun 30, 2012 5:58 am 
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So what are some total weight numbers with straps and pads for the new production boards? Are the lightest boards better than ones with a little more weight?

North-
RRD-
Mikes Lab-
Royal
AA-

Anyone know some of the numbers?


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 Post subject: Re: Raceboard total weight? Is Lightest the Best?
PostPosted: Sat Jun 30, 2012 8:20 am 
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if heavy was better why would the top custom guys have been producing boards way lighter than the introduced minimum?

weight takes more energy to accelerate stop and turn, so light and importantly stiff is what you want, so that there are no losses in energy transfer from the kite through you ( the weak link) and then the board.

if the board is like a wet noodle it isnt going to help, something that is stiff can perform as intended

to be honest i would look at the bare weight of the board as straps weigh different amounts and you can choose what you want as do fins, G10 weighs more than moulded carbon for instance.

i have had an AA and an RRD and now on a Temavento, which is considerably lighter and stiffer than the previous boards.

mine actually came in under the weight that was submitted for registration at 5.035kg and is a full carbon double sandwich.

Upwind in chop shows the biggest difference over the RRD construction that would slam and constantly slow down, the Temavento doesnt have the same losses


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 Post subject: Re: Raceboard total weight? Is Lightest the Best?
PostPosted: Sat Jun 30, 2012 3:51 pm 
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I couldn't figure out why everyone was so obsessed with the board's weight when it was such a small percentage of the total weight of the rider-board combination. However someone pointed out that the weight of the board is like unsprung weight on a car (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unsprung_mass).

The board is going up and down over the chop, but your knees bend so your entire weight isn't accelerating up and down over each wave nearly as much as the board is.


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 Post subject: Re: Raceboard total weight? Is Lightest the Best?
PostPosted: Sun Jul 01, 2012 9:25 am 
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james wrote:
Upwind in chop shows the biggest difference over the RRD construction that would slam and constantly slow down, the Temavento doesnt have the same losses


Are you sure that's because of construction/weight? The two boards have different outlines/rockers/bottoms, imo these are much more likely to be the causes (along with fin-trimming/foiling out of the water)

Lighter is better for almost everything (as you said, mainly acceleration/deceleration/turning), but in my limited experience lighter boards bounce more in chop (all other things being equal).


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 Post subject: Re: Raceboard total weight? Is Lightest the Best?
PostPosted: Sun Jul 01, 2012 11:38 am 
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2 identical boards - i'd take teh lighter one any day. i think you will see the rider weights of top level racing all gravitating towards a similar weight, for sure lightweights will have advantages in light winds, diet time...


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 Post subject: Re: Raceboard total weight? Is Lightest the Best?
PostPosted: Sun Jul 01, 2012 7:19 pm 
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pretty sure of the differences between the two boards.

the RRD has a single concave to flat that actually takes some of he harshness out of chop at least intitially and made it a little easier to reach with across the wind, the Temavento is flat all the way through,and is a little more technical across the wind but easier/better upwind( for me) i am talking about feeling the reverberations through the board as it hits slows down and then you have to accelerate it.

they have been used with the same fin set and same kites from 17m -9m

the RRD when i first got it actually was 5.4kg so not much more than the Temavento, and i had the same feeling in chop then.


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 Post subject: Re: Raceboard total weight? Is Lightest the Best?
PostPosted: Sun Jul 01, 2012 7:45 pm 
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lobodomar wrote:

Lighter is better for almost everything (as you said, mainly acceleration/deceleration/turning), but in my limited experience lighter boards bounce more in chop (all other things being equal).


I do not race kiteboards

What i think about is that for strap surfing at Jaws ...
...Riders are going at high speed down the bouncy face

The surfers prefer to make their boards heavier on purpose to track better and minimize bounce

Maybe for racing they should assign "handicaps" for "board+rider weight+ kite size"
A calculation where you would multiply the racer time from start to finish X the handicap number

In my racing sailboats (dinghy) years
All different type sailboats would enter the same race and using their time X handicap
You would determine the winner :winner2:

So you could have in that race a 505,470,Tornado,Flying junior, Fireball and a Flying Dutchman

They all had a chance to win the race
From the expected fastest (Tornado) to the expected slowest (Flying junior)

Maybe one day it will be how kiteboard racing will be


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 Post subject: Re: Raceboard total weight? Is Lightest the Best?
PostPosted: Tue Jul 03, 2012 1:03 am 
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james wrote:

the RRD when i first got it actually was 5.4kg so not much more than the Temavento, and i had the same feeling in chop then.


so you're saying the RRD gained weight, and as it did so you felt a deterioration of its performance in chop?

or you're saying the 2 boards have about the same weight, but different stiffeness (to which you attribute the difference in chop performance)?

Sorry, it really isn't clear to me what you meant.


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 Post subject: Re: Raceboard total weight? Is Lightest the Best?
PostPosted: Tue Jul 03, 2012 8:47 am 
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what i was saying is that the different construction makes the board feel different on the water, there was a 400g difference in weight and yet you could feel the two boards behave differently. is that clearer?

i friend of mine tried the Temavento last night , he usually rides the 2012 North ( green) and he remarked on the same thing. it felt crisp, responsive and easy to accelerate.


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 Post subject: Re: Raceboard total weight? Is Lightest the Best?
PostPosted: Tue Jul 03, 2012 10:19 am 
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james wrote:
what i was saying is that the different construction makes the board feel different on the water, there was a 400g difference in weight and yet you could feel the two boards behave differently. is that clearer?


Yep. But I still think you're comparing apples to oranges when you attribute the difference in behaviour (in chop, to which you were referring in your former post) solely to weight. IMO, if you take 2 identical boards (exact same geometry), the heavier one will bounce less in chop.

james wrote:
i friend of mine tried the Temavento last night , he usually rides the 2012 North ( green) and he remarked on the same thing. it felt crisp, responsive and easy to accelerate.

Again, comparing apples to oranges. But there is no doubt that, between 2 identical boards, the lighter one will feel more responsive (we'd already agreed on that :D )


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