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 Post subject: Re: RSX is taking legal action against ISAF
PostPosted: Fri Aug 03, 2012 3:37 am 
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The only legal action that is needed is against the IKA and their disgraceful representation of kiteboarding to kiters around the world, non kiters and voters to everyone in the 2 olympic reports to ISAF.

I was thinking about this today that not one highly experienced grassroots kiteboarder was involved in writing the report, and how messed up it is that the writer of the report (Markus) publicly asks kiteboarders that support the olympic cause (fine by me) not to comment... what a bunch of political bull. I just want to keep my fellow kiteboarders in full control of the safety of the sport not answering to sailing clubs, sailing committees and have actual kiteboarders making the decision 100% of who to send to olympics, not a group of "suits" that may decide it is better to send someone else cos they are not towing the line of isaf completely for example - that is my simple motive to these comments.

The whole sordid affair has really turned me right off kite racing (temporarily I hope), and i was super motivated before all this absolute political crap came up, smoked riders on raceboards with a surfboard in high winds, and didn't do too bad.

Most countries cannot afford box rule at top level, alright for Europe and US though i guess

Saying u can launch a kite 3-4 knots of wind in reports, but never mentioning if that is with assistance on boat or land for example so no reader in the wiser - just simply dishonest.

3 kite limit by isaf for event run over days - , ok so it is a shame it is more expensive but to have that outweigh safety and enjoyable riding in high winds - THE most fun conditions in ludicrous - no experienced kiter from maritime weather pattern countries would buy into that.

I have been personally attacked for my opinions by Markus at IKA calling me an anarchist! I remember all those discussions taking the piss out of the IKA when it started on this forum a few years ago...

Ahhh politics...lol Yawwwwwwn Anyway, I happy - i learnt some new tricks - and am inspired to make a vid like Toby's airstyle - but called allstyle. Keep it real, kiteboarders stay in control of their own sport and absolutely smoke them all Marc Jacobs tomorrow!


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 Post subject: Re: RSX is taking legal action against ISAF
PostPosted: Fri Aug 03, 2012 8:34 pm 
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Can't say I'm surprised. When there was an effort to transform Olympic windsurfing class into something more modern - formula, which just about every windsurfer on the beach approved of, the same folk were pretty combative against the change. The way I see it, they have an established stream of revenue that makes carriers possible. Not that I believe that anyone is getting rich on it, but it is a living. And now someone (ISAF) says it is over. Of course the are angry. No more support from national association, Olympic teams... etc. NO ONE buys this gear (RS: X) for other reason than Olympics. No Olympics, no RS: X and all those jobs that were associated with it. Windsurfing will live on happily in the forms that are actually popular.


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 Post subject: Re: RSX is taking legal action against ISAF
PostPosted: Sat Aug 04, 2012 1:26 am 
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longwhitecloud wrote:
not one highly experienced grassroots kiteboarder


what does this even mean? In the US, talking about grassroots is usually a means for excluding any on the basis of what ever the message sender feels like that day.

My point being there is no criteria that can be measured using "grassroots".

No entirely disagreeing with a lot of the other stuff tho....but I am definitely not turned off racing as I really do not care about who writes what. To me it seems more people are interested in race as a result of the olympic participation :-)


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 Post subject: Re: RSX is taking legal action against ISAF
PostPosted: Sat Aug 04, 2012 1:49 am 
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lol well the substance of documents like these (olympic reports) here would be known as "astroturf "

The reason being that the writer does not have the grassroots experience we have and that the actual writer(s) of this document is in fact using the document for selling/marketing olympic kiteboarding to be included - they werea not unbiased 3rd party report.

i hear what you are saying for sure more to race against now ,but you need an honest transparent foundation to an organisation in order to trust it has your interests at heart.

I don't care either, until someone is telling me or my friends what to do that does not have the experience to keep them safe and having fun - i am anticipating that and making damn sure the line is towed with respect to this - unfortunately comments in the olympic documents with regards to safety and wind speed limits + other things the 3 kite limit (isaf), lack of safety flagging leash, cost of fins - things like this do not tow the line.

Going surfing, got a new board!


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 Post subject: Re: RSX is taking legal action against ISAF
PostPosted: Sat Aug 04, 2012 3:03 am 
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interesting what Neil Pryde has to say about it...


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 Post subject: Re: RSX is taking legal action against ISAF
PostPosted: Sat Aug 04, 2012 5:19 am 
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Dan Glyaire wrote:
interesting what Neil Pryde has to say about it...


great interview , brings up some good points.


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 Post subject: Re: RSX is taking legal action against ISAF
PostPosted: Sat Aug 04, 2012 11:57 am 
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Hi,

I was going to stay out of this, but I see that you are spreading some wrong information again.

Here is the correct info:

1) Markus did not write the Report to the ISAF. It was written by a panel: Here is the Info:

ISAF has also appointed a panel of windsurfing, Kiteboarding and race management experts to prepare a final report for the ISAF Mid-Year meeting:

• Tomasz Chamera - ISAF Events Committee
• Ilker Bayindir - ISAF Windsurfing & Kiteboarding Committee
• Bruno de Wannemaeker - ISAF Equipment Committee

2) 3 Kites Limit was not an ISAF Idea. It was voted for in the last IKA AGM in Murcia, and bevor you start on Markus, I remember that he actually voted for 4 with Germany's vote

3) Lack of Safety Leash? Here is the Rule from our rule book:

C.3.1 SAFETY AND LIFE-SAVING EQUIPMENT
(a) A detachable kite leash shall be used. The Notice of Race and the Sailing instructions may change this rule.

I have never experienced a Race director who has gone and changed this rule in the NOR and said we do not need to use a race.

That said. The rule is not enforced and most of the top guys are out there with no saftey other than being able to eject the kite. Maybe the Race directors should be enforcing the rules a bit more for safeties sake.

4) The Report was written by unbiased people. They took into account what we showed in Santander. They had open minds and took in what happened there and put it into their report. I think that was the right way to got. We showed what we could do in various conditions and they took that as the current state of the Kiteracing sport. Sure, the racers there were on the water there are professionals and know what they are doing and cannot be compared to the everyday kiter, but the Olympics is not about the everyday kiter, it's about the highest level of racing and will have very little effect on the normal kiters lives out there.



--
Gunnar




longwhitecloud wrote:
lol well the substance of documents like these (olympic reports) here would be known as "astroturf "

The reason being that the writer does not have the grassroots experience we have and that the actual writer(s) of this document is in fact using the document for selling/marketing olympic kiteboarding to be included - they werea not unbiased 3rd party report.

i hear what you are saying for sure more to race against now ,but you need an honest transparent foundation to an organisation in order to trust it has your interests at heart.

I don't care either, until someone is telling me or my friends what to do that does not have the experience to keep them safe and having fun - i am anticipating that and making damn sure the line is towed with respect to this - unfortunately comments in the olympic documents with regards to safety and wind speed limits + other things the 3 kite limit (isaf), lack of safety flagging leash, cost of fins - things like this do not tow the line.

Going surfing, got a new board!


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 Post subject: Re: RSX is taking legal action against ISAF
PostPosted: Sat Aug 04, 2012 10:39 pm 
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Toby wrote:
RSX is taking legal action against ISAF
we have been informed that the International RS:X Class Association Ltd is taking legal action against the International Sailing Federation (ISAF), based on the fact that ISAF has selected Kiteboarding and not Windsurfing as Olympic sailing event for the Games in Rio de Janeiro in 2016.
We feel shocked that an international class, being bound by ISAF constitution, rules and regulations, is even considering legal action against the world governing body because of a decision that has been taken in a democratic process and in full accordance with the defined decision making processes of ISAF .
Initiating legal action in the middle of the Olympic Games might damage not only the performance of the affected sailors but also the reputation of sailing in general.
 The International Kiteboarding Association is fully aware of the ongoing discussions about Olympic Events and Equipment and is respecting ISAFs internal processes.


hi Toby,
are you referring "we have been informed" as for you, Toby Braeuer, (the "we - the kite world" have been informed) or you are quoting some organizations press release?


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 Post subject: Re: RSX is taking legal action against ISAF
PostPosted: Sun Aug 05, 2012 1:28 am 
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Mr Pryde makes a few good points.
But reading the Olympic reports off 'Sailing-World.com'...
Quote: With the Olympic windsurfer much of this equipment part of the equation has supposedly been eliminated because there is only one manufacturer and everything is the supposed to be the same - built off the same molds - or so one might expect. Unfortunately the quality control is so poor the top competitors will buy six or seven sets of equipment each year to find the fastest sail or the fastest fin or mast. Bottom line - is there a significant variation in equipment.

This is normally a variable one can control by buying gear until one has 'fast stuff', but at the Olympics the windsurfing equipment is supplied by the organizing committee. This may be affecting Nikola's performance or it may simply be a case of her technique slipping or a little of both. In any case, she is not going as fast as we have seen her go in these conditions for the last two years. It must be frustrating!


Their are arguments for one design, But the box rule will keep the sport alive and hey if one brand is better than the other... then thats what everyone will be racing on.


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 Post subject: Re: RSX is taking legal action against ISAF
PostPosted: Sun Aug 05, 2012 9:12 am 
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sprockett wrote:
Mr Pryde makes a few good points.
But reading the Olympic reports off 'Sailing-World.com'...
Quote: With the Olympic windsurfer much of this equipment part of the equation has supposedly been eliminated because there is only one manufacturer and everything is the supposed to be the same - built off the same molds - or so one might expect. Unfortunately the quality control is so poor the top competitors will buy six or seven sets of equipment each year to find the fastest sail or the fastest fin or mast. Bottom line - is there a significant variation in equipment.

This is normally a variable one can control by buying gear until one has 'fast stuff', but at the Olympics the windsurfing equipment is supplied by the organizing committee. This may be affecting Nikola's performance or it may simply be a case of her technique slipping or a little of both. In any case, she is not going as fast as we have seen her go in these conditions for the last two years. It must be frustrating!


Their are arguments for one design, But the box rule will keep the sport alive and hey if one brand is better than the other... then thats what everyone will be racing on.


It does seem that they think they can detect differences between equipment. They have an opportunity to ask for different gear before the Olympics if they think they have a slightly slower set. I'm guessing the ones that are doing well dont think equipment is quite so important, but its probable that they have done GPS testing of RSX gear and been able to detect differences in performance.

Having said that, the 3 favourites before the event are 1st 2nd and 5th after 8 races and are the only 3 to have won 2 or more races, so the equipment doesn't seem to be that important if you are good enough.

http://www.sail-world.com/Australia/Lon ... ity/100603


Last edited by ronnie on Sun Aug 05, 2012 10:30 am, edited 1 time in total.

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