Try to "fly" your 16 Rebel with 5 meter extension lines (25+5)

This will then give both kite tested 30 meter lines

Let us know if then the power still has a good margin

Or put the Fly on 5 meter less lines length ....just add 5 instead of 10 to their standard 20m lines

Most recreational Freeride LW kites are at 27 meter lines

So why isn't the Fly like all others LW kites out there....?? Would make comparing kites easier

Does the 30 meter lines really give more power or does the kite pull more being lower in window?

Please let us know the results with equal line lengths......thanks

Peter, you ride way different then me, so I understand what you need.

I have soooo much fun with my big kite, would never ever trade it for a smaller, then I rather go and work!

And of course, I cannot do kiteloops (been there, done that, knees still working) or ride a wave, but I can pull really tuff tricks you won't do with your small kite.

Good to have choices!

A big kite in places like florida is a must,afternoon seabreeze,peter is right that board size is most important,and he right when wind picks up a big kite it can be a handful,nobody likes using big kites,nice steady wind big kite can be fun,that why i like the idea of the fly its not so big,and it seems to turn fast,so as big kites go it might not be bad,i never had any kite biger than 12 but got naish park 14 and nugget was out yesterday only kite staying up wind only kite on water for last 30 minutes,most used kite this year shitty winds,rather be on my 10 or 8 but had fun on my 14 and nugget,Tony

The 12 Boss is NOT a lightwind kite by the way.....and really hasn't got much power...WOW!!!!

You would be a stranger at our beach with only a 12 at your body weight....meaning barely kiting

What do you average 5/10/15/20 times a month ??..Where is that magical wind of yours??

I am 75kg/165lbs...and i have a 12M...and a wide quad strap surfboard

I am VERY efficient and experienced in LW conditions....my low end to stay/go upwind = 11 knots

Since we get a lot of 10 knots...9 knots...8 knots...ocean breezes...what a waste of good surf sesh

Look at how much you weigh and get REAL please...."12 knots is LW" in your mind (your limit)

World over LW means in people's mind 9-8 knots....an ultra low 7 knots...ultra ultra low is 6 knots

Let's put aside 6 and 7....and only focus on reasonable numbers 8/9/10/11knots

I usually rarely miss any day there is wind where i live

It is kiteable 5 times a week / 20 a month

Half the time i CANNOT GO on my 12........and i am 45 lbs LIGHTER

So there you have it.....why should i be stubborn...limit myself and miss out 10 sessions a month

I t is a BIG world out there and there is a need for some to have BIG efficient kites that turn fast

That's is what i use now 19M XR2LW Core Riot

If we had a test me versus you on your 12 in 12 knots and me on the 19 your head would spin

............................... .................Greeting from Florida...................................

The Wainman 12 BOSS pulls like a 12 and turns like a 12 ....do not cry jkrug

The SP3 21 pulls like a 27 and turns like a 20

The Dyno 18 pulls like a 23 and turns like a 16

The Riot XR219 pulls like a 22 and turns like a 14

Isn't that fun......i should know.... we have those 3 kites constantly riding at my beach

And i have ridden them all..... (even the Boss )

for the 3 giants out there

JKrug- My 265 pound buddy finds the Wainman Big Mama 15M to be his version of the Boss 12m and sees the Boss 12M as most would see the Smoke 9M, so body weight is a factor for sure.
Peter- At my weight 78kg, I find that a good 13M or 14M is the way to go as well.
But local conditions are a big factor.
On our inland lakes, the wind comes in cycles and is very gusty, just up and down all day.
Nothing even similar to coastal wind, which is just less than 4 hours away for us, so we get to enjoy that on weekends and any brand or model of kite feels awesome all the time, coastal wind makes you feel like a hero.
At the coast, we can do all the stuff that Supa EZ and the rest of the monster kite lovers advocate and have a great time in really light wind, so I understand their viewpoint even if it is limited.
Here on our lakes, a light wind day goes 12 mph to 8 to 4 to 15 to 11 to 7 to 5 and back to 12 in a matter of fifteen or twenty minutes.
Another slightly more windy day will be 15 mph to 11 to 20 to 16 to 13 to 22 and back to 15, ..do you rig for 15 or do you rig for 22 or for 11 or what do you do?
We have a Turbine 17M, Infinity V1 15M, Zephyr 17M, Slingy T2 17M and Big Mama 15M here and you get your ass ripped in the gusts, and they are slow in the lulls. The Infinity V1 turns faster than most but will teabag you in the big gusts, just the same. The Zephyr is pretty good at the upper end but turns slow and the Big Mama is very good all around.
But all these kites other than a big Flysurfer, can fall out of the sky during some of our lulls on a lightwind day.
So, to get a kite that will pull enough to be a lightwind kite, but turns quick enough to figure 8 it in the lulls, and be able to relaunch easily when they all fall, and not hand you your ass in the gusts, is the challenge.
This argument has to do with location and conditions and body weight and boards and preferences, I think.
A good kite for me used to be a Slingshot T2 14M, I have since upgraded to an Epic Renegade 13M LTD, it is a better choice for me than the Infinity/Dyno/Fat Lady/Zephyr/Turbine...but that is for me, at my weight, in my local conditions.

Agreed and not that many people are willing to bite the bullet
doing enough research and pay more for the right specific kite & condition
Plus most of the riders are biased towards certain Brand
and kissing their butts when some of their sizes are not even working out for them

SupaEZ, I like the way you point out the B.S.
Most of the people don't have a clue when they talk about light winds,
I'm glad you mentioned the line length issue and pulling power ABC
when testing & comparing, which already came up before with Dimitri's kites.
I'm glad you keep watching the light wind bullsh!t and you're correcting people,
for better education and ground work.

I used to do all this what you're doing, but I'm not interested any more
But when I see another Brand is doing and copying the same existing idea,
for advertising and making the ends meat with "power of an 18, turns like a 12m"
in stead of giving the real tech specs, that's really, really a shame

DrLW

Ackshully... turns like a 12 - or rather, if the Fly turns like a 12 then the S3 21 must turn like a 10

Out on the water last week, with H flying the Fly and me on the 21, we both had to work the kites to get upwind through the lulls... remembering this catch-phrase for the Fly, I was timing turns by watching his bar. The 21 was turning faster; from initiating the turn to being pointed and accelerating in a new direction eg. down.

Of course... I can't guarantee that H was trying to go upwind as quickly or work the kite as hard

I think the feather weights can get away with a smaller kite no worries... it's the Clydesdale Class that needs the extra square meters!

Say... what is the generic 12m that everyone keeps referring to? Is there a firm that makes/made the "Standardized Kite Against Which All Are Tested"?

Hiyah, Supa correctly asserted that my test was not done under laboratory conditions there... I don't have the rebel any more so cannot do a back to back comparison. I did fly them both on similar length lines - the fly on the 24m (second time around) and the Rebel on the stock 25s. I can only share my experience such as it is over a number of sessions on each.

The Fly pulls hard...

I do like Naish, I have just spent much dosh on a new kite, it would suck if that kite wasn't great ... You show me your truth, I'll show you mine etc... Lots of love to all.

i predicted earlier in this thread that someone would come out and say 'yeah, but you haven't tried my xyz brand'. thank you for proving me right.

i never said the Boss was designed as a light wind kite. all i said was it's MY light wind kite. and i'm not being stubborn at all; if i tried a kite that could yield some fun in < 12 knots, i'd consider it. but my point all along has been i've never tried such a kite, and i've tried a few of these behemoths. our summer here in the NE USA has been horrific for wind, so i've kited very little. but it's not like i'm sitting on the beach while others with bigger kites are kiting; if anyone is out, i usually am as well. again, that's my point. my 12M w/bigger board (145*46 TT or JL 6' surf) combo has proven to be just as 'efficient' as those monsters. i'm sorry if you can't handle that reality.