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 Post subject: Re: Zeeko ultimate bar no clamcleat no depower straps?
PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2012 2:32 am 
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Ultimate Bar By Zeeko:

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 Post subject: Re: Zeeko ultimate bar no clamcleat no depower straps?
PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2012 12:57 pm 
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Location: Sweden
Hey there everyone. To asnwer your Q: no, I have not given up on the system. Infact I´m using it on all my kites now :D

I have still some issues to iron out before it is "perfect" :roll:

I did ad a pulley at the top just as the original Zeeko-UDS. Far less friction in the system but I still feel that there is to much friction since when at full power/overpowered (when you need to pull de-power) it is still hard to pull the de-power tab. So, I tested adding a pulley at the chickenloop and this is not any good! The friction is now not enough to hold its position - it just slides to full power mode. So back to a one pulley situation just like the original (Why am I trying to invent the wheel again :roll: ) .

One other thing is what rope to use for the tab/prussic knots??? I now use std 3mm dyneema and I find that it does not grip hard enough on the CL-rope (5 mm pure dyneema) when I pull on the tab (it slides) AND when it is relesed and needs to slide it gripps a bit to much...obviously the wrong type of rope for the pull tabs, but what to use instead???

/Urban.


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 Post subject: Re: Zeeko ultimate bar no clamcleat no depower straps?
PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2012 3:31 pm 
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Telekiter,

You might have better luck with the stopper/powerline-adjuster/Prussic-knot device, getting a better grip on the powerline, if you use a much larger diameter powerline, which will have a "coarser weave". Also, for the prussic knot cord, itself, try using some old bridle line rope, which has a more "abrasive" grip on the power line.

Even with these modifications, you will probably find that you can not easily depower the system, when there is a lot of tension on the front lines. You will probably need to do the same thing that kiters do that use the "below the bar" cleat system... they have to bear off and decrease the tension on the front lines, and make the needed depower adjustment, at the same time .

I am glad to see that you are still working on the details. Keep us posted.


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 Post subject: Re: Zeeko ultimate bar no clamcleat no depower straps?
PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2012 7:52 pm 
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tomatkins wrote:
Telekiter,

You might have better luck with the stopper/powerline-adjuster/Prussic-knot device, getting a better grip on the powerline, if you use a much larger diameter powerline, which will have a "coarser weave". Also, for the prussic knot cord, itself, try using some old bridle line rope, which has a more "abrasive" grip on the power line.

Even with these modifications, you will probably find that you can not easily depower the system, when there is a lot of tension on the front lines. You will probably need to do the same thing that kiters do that use the "below the bar" cleat system... they have to bear off and decrease the tension on the front lines, and make the needed depower adjustment, at the same time .

I am glad to see that you are still working on the details. Keep us posted.


Hello, thanx for the advice for the prussic knot line i will check what i have laying around.

I have considered using a thicker CL-line but that would also create much more friction on the swivel by the CL. So, I dont know if that is the answer, hmmmm.

The stopper does not work at all. One possible solution is the use a longer plastic pipe so there is a bigger distance between the left an right cl-line where the run through the stopper. This would make it more z-shape and hance wedge better the bar is against the stopper.

/Urban.


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 Post subject: Re: Zeeko ultimate bar no clamcleat no depower straps?
PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2012 8:06 pm 
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Joined: Tue Sep 07, 2010 10:47 pm
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Put one extra wrap on the prussic hitch.


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 Post subject: Re: Zeeko ultimate bar no clamcleat no depower straps?
PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2012 8:34 pm 
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sfpete wrote:
Put one extra wrap on the prussic hitch.


Yepp, tried that already. The gripp is fine that way but it keeps the gripp when i release it so then the stopper does not slide like it should.


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 Post subject: Re: Zeeko ultimate bar no clamcleat no depower straps?
PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2012 10:40 pm 
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Joined: Sun Jan 09, 2011 6:03 pm
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Telekiter,
Try turning the whole lot upside down.
This reduces the pull required to de-power by a lot.
I have used this successfully with no pulleys, just rings.

Cheers
Dave


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 Post subject: Re: Zeeko ultimate bar no clamcleat no depower straps?
PostPosted: Wed Aug 08, 2012 8:15 am 
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faklord wrote:
Telekiter,
Try turning the whole lot upside down.
This reduces the pull required to de-power by a lot.
I have used this successfully with no pulleys, just rings.

Cheers
Dave


Are you sure you did not change anything else at the same time?

It should make no difference since it should require the same amount of force as needed in my system if I use the blue tab-line and push away to de-power. Further, how do you make the bar travel when you have the "top ring" (in my system) moving close to the bar?

Pictures???

/Urban.


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 Post subject: Re: Zeeko ultimate bar no clamcleat no depower straps?
PostPosted: Wed Aug 08, 2012 9:48 pm 
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Joined: Sun Jan 09, 2011 6:03 pm
Posts: 34
Telekiter,
The ring still goes above the bar.
You end up with 3 lines through the bar + safety. Requires a longer length of depower line.

The difference is:
In your system the frictional forces pushing away the blue prussic act on the chechen loop, pulling it away from you.
In my system the frictional force to pull the blue prussic is also pulling down on the front lines and thus reduces the force required to change the lengths (also is it easier to pull than push).

The other benefit it the more depower you apply. The more throw the bar has - a safer option if it starts nuking when you are out.

Try it! You don't need a kite, just use any old anchor.
Let us know how you get on.

D


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 Post subject: Re: Zeeko ultimate bar no clamcleat no depower straps?
PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2012 10:15 am 
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Joined: Tue May 15, 2007 8:43 pm
Posts: 76
faklord wrote:
The difference is:
In your system the frictional forces pushing away the blue prussic act on the chechen loop, pulling it away from you.
In my system the frictional force to pull the blue prussic is also pulling down on the front lines and thus reduces the force required to change the lengths (also is it easier to pull than push).

The other benefit it the more depower you apply. The more throw the bar has - a safer option if it starts nuking when you are out.
D


Interesting idea. But that's a lot of line through the bar. Also I'm not completely sure how making depowering easier would solve tele's problem.

Maybe the key is to get just the right combination of lines. Zeeko seem to use what looks like a fairly soft 4 or 5mm dyneema and a 2-3mm sleeved bridle-style line. The fact that the prusics are tightly captured in the h-block might also make a difference.

http://vimeo.com/35894078


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