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 Post subject: Re: Seaking helicopter incident leaves kite surfer injured
PostPosted: Sat Aug 18, 2012 11:31 am 
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Ned Divine wrote:
From what he says about losing his job etc. I wonder if Captain is actually a helicopter pilot. If this is the case, it very amusing how some people are so willing to dismiss his opinion as bullshit. :o

The thing is, there are educated opinions and there are uneducated opinions. They are not equal, but may appear so to those without the specific education to tell the difference.

That's why the world is full of people blindly following ridiculous advice of others, doing stuff like buying social network stocks with wild P/E ratios, without understanding impediments to profit growth, or even sustainability.

Cheers,
James


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 Post subject: Re: Seaking helicopter incident leaves kite surfer injured
PostPosted: Sat Aug 18, 2012 12:28 pm 
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Ned Divine wrote:
From what he says about losing his job etc. I wonder if Captain is actually a helicopter pilot. If this is the case, it very amusing how some people are so willing to dismiss his opinion as bullshit. :o


Going on 18 years. Never any of the many Sea King variants, but some approaching ~15,000lbs.


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 Post subject: Re: Seaking helicopter incident leaves kite surfer injured
PostPosted: Sat Aug 18, 2012 1:19 pm 
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ROFPML!
A humble pilot, I didn`t know there was such a thing!

heres one for you:

What does a pilot say after 4 hours at a party?

"well enough about me"


We need a name change. The Sneak King heli.


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 Post subject: Re: Seaking helicopter incident leaves kite surfer injured
PostPosted: Sat Aug 18, 2012 4:22 pm 
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Location: Too far away from the water, again.
It is possible to sneak up on someone with a large-ish heli, but it's not the sort of thing that happens by accident. Usually requires careful use of speed, topography and low altitude, and works better if the object of your sneaking up is doing something noisy (like driving something big with tracks, or making stuff go bang), but I can imagine that you might be able to surprise a kiter on a windy day. Anyway...

It's not going to take a massive downdraft to cause a kite to misbehave... I'd guess that a Sea King at 200-300 feet would probably disrupt airflow enough to cause a problem.

There are lots of things that can cause your kite to do something other than what you want it to. A gust or lull at the wrong moment, a busted line, a deflated bladder, contact with another kite, pilot error... or a chopper flying overhead at low-ish altitude. Usually this results in a bit of ingested seawater, and maybe a bit of swimming. If you're jumping when it happens, it hurts a bit more. If you're jumping in shallow water, it might hurt a lot more.

By making the choice to jump in the shallows, like the choice not to wear a helmet/buoyancy aid, you accept a certain level of risk. If something goes wrong, the outcome may be more severe. You live with your choice.

The general, non-kiting public wants air/sea rescue choppers more than they want kiters. Filing a complaint may lead to bad publicity and subsequent bannination. Suck it up.


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 Post subject: Re: Seaking helicopter incident leaves kite surfer injured
PostPosted: Sat Aug 18, 2012 7:17 pm 
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Mr_Weetabix wrote:
It is possible to sneak up on someone... speed, topography and low altitude... I can imagine that you might be able to surprise a kiter on a windy day.

Nobody can see a helicopter on the far side of a ship or island or something. Not even kiters. But to get a Sea King into a position, undetected, that it can actually affect a kiteboarder in Sea King flyable weather (let alone kiteable weather) is fantasy.


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 Post subject: Re: Seaking helicopter incident leaves kite surfer injured
PostPosted: Sat Aug 18, 2012 8:59 pm 
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Did they ever find the girl? How's the man's foot? He'll probably get two weeks paid sick leave.

A big copter could easily sneak up on people... just turn off the ignition and glide... copters can glide like no tomorrow.... the bigger they are the better they glide... I thought that was common knowledge.

PS: who's got some spare cycles monday morning... I gotta re-roof my porch... efn cheap shingles they make now a days.


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 Post subject: Re: Seaking helicopter incident leaves kite surfer injured
PostPosted: Sat Aug 18, 2012 9:11 pm 
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frankm1960 wrote:
... copters can glide like no tomorrow....

Only if "like no tomorrow" means they glide so poorly you might not survive to see tomorrow!

Helicopters glide more poorly than almost any other aircraft.

That said, you've identified the only way to sneak up on a (non-deaf) kiter with a Sea King: autorotate (glide) from high altitiude, right down onto his/her kite/head. Even that, by the way, would take considerable background noise to mask.

Cheers,
James


Last edited by JS on Sun Aug 19, 2012 7:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Seaking helicopter incident leaves kite surfer injured
PostPosted: Sat Aug 18, 2012 9:46 pm 
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With enough stoke, maybe the kiter would not hear a helicopter. But really they are pretty noisy. Speed of sound is 762 mph. Seaking's top speed is 167 mph. But why fly so fast so low?

I think it was the kiters fault but even that does not matter. The idea of complaining to any national aviation authority regarding Coast-Guard activities is a gross misunderstanding of priority in any nautical or aviation right of way scheme.

Nobody anywhere is going support any sanction on Coast-Guard helicopters because kiteboarders are mad. In fact, the fishermen, surfers, windsurfers, lifeguards, parents will support a ban on kiteboarding and be happy to use avaiation or the piping-plover to achieve that.

Hope they found the kid!


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 Post subject: Re: Seaking helicopter incident leaves kite surfer injured
PostPosted: Sun Aug 19, 2012 1:09 am 
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Is a helicopter pilot not the right person to suggest how feasible it is to sneak up on people with a helicopter? What kind of education could he be short of? His 18-year experience on people's reactions on the ground during his approaches should be considered enough, let alone his training, which for sure included things like gliding, noise, rescue etc.
There is no education that can give the right to call "bullshit" a pilot's opinion on a pilot subject.
PS If you all are helicopter pilots as well, I rest my case! :lol:
Vangelis
PS
By right of my own specialist education, I can assure you that humans may not register even very loud sounds if their attention is focused elsewhere. Therefore, a moderate reduction of noise due to the helicopter's type of approach combined with a kiter absorbed in his jumping and kitelooping, could well result in him not noticing the helicopter until it is too near for comfort. I am not saying that this is clever or that this actually happened, but I just say it is possible.


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 Post subject: Re: Seaking helicopter incident leaves kite surfer injured
PostPosted: Sun Aug 19, 2012 1:13 am 
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jakemoore wrote:
I think it was the kiters fault but even that does not matter. The idea of complaining to any national aviation authority regarding Coast-Guard activities is a gross misunderstanding of priority in any nautical or aviation right of way scheme.

Nobody anywhere is going support any sanction on Coast-Guard helicopters because kiteboarders are mad. In fact, the fishermen, surfers, windsurfers, lifeguards, parents will support a ban on kiteboarding and be happy to use avaiation or the piping-plover to achieve that.

Hope they found the kid!

+1 ! :thumb:


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