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 Post subject: Re: 443 Euros / 550 USD / 349 GBP for a bar? Have they gone
PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2012 9:08 pm 
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hey Jono, i know what you mean, the inflation rate is around 2% :) but you didn not take into account the most important thing and that is that inflation and debt are exponential functions ;) :jump: They tell you how they control the inflation but that are fairy tales :baby:

The simpelest way to explain is, that there is a lot more money in the whole world right now, than there was, when the inflation rate was 10%. I will give and example, but the numbers are fiction. So at start there was only 1000$(or million if you want, but i doubt it was that much) so it was a lot easier to inject 10%, which is 100$. Now when there is houndreds of zillion $ in the world, so you really cant add 10% which is zillions ;)

I will post two links, if you want to read them, the first one also explains in a very simple way why we are so f**** and why those new $ and € matter a LOT!
Here it is: http://www.seankerrigan.com/exponential ... explained/

and this one also explains what i am talking about, but not so interesting:
http://www.formulafordebt.blogspot.com/ ... rowth.html

Do the links work??


Last edited by TommyDelly on Wed Aug 22, 2012 9:14 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: 443 Euros / 550 USD / 349 GBP for a bar? Have they gone
PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2012 9:11 pm 
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my sister kayaks and was trying to get me into the sport, she was recommending some brands, I needed to get a sport kayak for surfing waves for a few thousand, and then a sea kayak for trips for another few thousand, a few hundred for a decent paddle, and I say to her, "You have to be kidding this is so expensive can't I get into the sport for you know a few hundred why do I have to get all this expensive technical equipment." And she said that the cheap stuff was junk but with a decent kayak you can use it every day and then after ten years sell it for a decent price. Then she asked me how much I could sell my kites after using them every day for ten years. I said I would have a better chance of selling my underwear than a ten year old kite that was used every day. Face it kiteboarding can't be directly compared to other sports.


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 Post subject: Re: 443 Euros / 550 USD / 349 GBP for a bar? Have they gone
PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2012 9:34 pm 
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davesails7 wrote:
eree wrote:
no wonder, if for the price of the bar only you can buy pretty decent mountain bike with the lifespan ten times or more longer.

BigPaul wrote:
All that said I never look out of the window and think what an awesome day to go riding like a do with kitesurfing

Exactly. You can't compare riding a bike to kiting!
I agree that the price of equipment is getting pretty ridiculous. BUT look at what you are getting: A giant wing that weighs just a few pounds that flys in the air while you steer it and ride a little board at 25+ knots behind it and launch up 20+ feet in the air at will with nice soft landings at the end!

i don't compare riding a bike to kiting here. but some young potential kiter material guy can compare prices on gear and decide to ride a bike.

AND i look at what i've got: A giant wing that is made of cheapest textile material possible! it is all polyester, it can not turn to gold just because you weave it one way or another in the thinner teijin or thicker dacron. they make this cloth on looms which work 20 hours every day, they make big batches - nobody runs the loom for short time just to make lets say 30 yards of yellow colored teijin for one small buyer. that would be expensive.

Jono 111 wrote:
Well, its even more ridiculous to compare it to the cost of a low level bike.
My last hardtail cost me circa £2000. Its a decent bike but still not over the top. The transmission will last a year and a bit, then cost £600 to overhaul + tyres, tubes, grips, pads, fork servicing and so on. And any decent full susser will cost you a minimum £3000. So the analogy is pretty flawed....
If you have the same interest in bikes as kitesurfing, you're not riding around on a £350 quid bike.

at least you have a choice with bikes, and your hardtail is made of high tech metal alloys and not of PET bottles!
i'm not competing in kiteboarding and i'm not competing in cycling. so i'm quite good with 450eur bike.

i am aware that probably 80% of this forum users are affiliated persons so it is pointless to argue. you know that each one of you cost me money every time when i buy a new kite, giving me back pretty much squat.
so i'm sure kite brands could easily manage with half of todays prices.


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 Post subject: Re: 443 Euros / 550 USD / 349 GBP for a bar? Have they gone
PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2012 9:38 pm 
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Hey TommyDelly - you've posted a couple of links, but I'm sorry but I'm not sure what your point is? I looked at the first one briefly, quite a religious, the end is nigh type affair.

Taut - my point was simply that inflation is low - and that in the Chinese case, probably not the determinative factor in the retail cost of a bar. I'm also constantly amazed by the number of people who think that companies should be run as socialist enterprises. I'm not in that camp or commercially naive.


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 Post subject: Re: 443 Euros / 550 USD / 349 GBP for a bar? Have they gone
PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2012 9:56 pm 
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Religious :lol: :rollgrin: its only math :thumb:

I know its not only inflation, kite industry is relatevely new, so that is the main reason why they can afford to mark so high prices :roll: but others have point that out already.

My point is that the reason for price increase of any goods is inflation (and that is also why bars are getting expensive) and people should get used to this kind of price increases of goods, because the system is overheating right now :bye:


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 Post subject: Re: 443 Euros / 550 USD / 349 GBP for a bar? Have they gone
PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2012 10:00 pm 
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Jono 111 wrote:
Hey TommyDelly - you've posted a couple of links, but I'm sorry but I'm not sure what your point is? I looked at the first one briefly, quite a religious, the end is nigh type affair.

Taut - my point was simply that inflation is low - and that in the Chinese case, probably not the determinative factor in the retail cost of a bar. I'm also constantly amazed by the number of people who think that companies should be run as socialist enterprises. I'm not in that camp or commercially naive.


yeah general Chinese inflation is relatively low, actually artificially low...but that is a different discussion...however labor costs are rising really friggin fast as they run out of labor (not due to a lack of people, but due to a lack of people around factories). Most of China is still rural.

In any case, last year labor cost rose 22%. That is a significant number, even if it is a small part of the overall price also because it is so early in the food chain so to speak.

Either way I really do not know how much a company pays for the bars, but I doubt they are gouging us. I think it is a matter of adjusting to their cost. :-)

edit: source http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/25f1c500-ff14-11e0-9b2f-00144feabdc0.html#axzz24JJQxKVu


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 Post subject: Re: 443 Euros / 550 USD / 349 GBP for a bar? Have they gone
PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2012 10:22 pm 
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I have to bite coz you brought up socialism :D

This name calling, socialist, komunist, blabla is another american brainwash :wink: :naughty:

I can brake it down to you :) You have 2 political wings: left, where the extreme is socialism and right, where the extreme is fascism and everything in between is BS (even this two extremes are not so different as you might think). Than you can say that in basis you only have two political ideas, so if you are not a socialist, you are a fascist!

In that case i would rather be a socialist :wink: :D Socialism works and stands on the basic idea of community(people) and that is in my opinion way better idea than the right(fascist) idea where the basic idea is state! :remybussi:


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 Post subject: Re: 443 Euros / 550 USD / 349 GBP for a bar? Have they gone
PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2012 10:38 pm 
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TommyDelly wrote:
I have to bite coz you brought up socialism :D

This name calling, socialist, komunist, blabla is another american brainwash :wink: :naughty:

I can brake it down to you :) You have 2 political wings: left, where the extreme is socialism and right, where the extreme is fascism and everything in between is BS (even this two extremes are not so different as you might think). Than you can say that in basis you only have two political ideas, so if you are not a socialist, you are a fascist!

In that case i would rather be a socialist :wink: :D Socialism works and stands on the basic idea of community(people) and that is in my opinion way better idea than the right(fascist) idea where the basic idea is state! :remybussi:


You just took this conversation into the toilet.

The bars are expensive because people pay it. If no ones buys them, the price goes down. It is really very simple.

Less expensive products probably have a combination of the following: less expensive materials, less R&D which means they are copying others products and are behind the technology curve, or limited support in the form of no shops or reps to talk to.

Kiting is my #1 hobby, I am willing to pay whatever it takes to get the gear that I really want. Life is too short to ride gear you don't like.


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 Post subject: Re: 443 Euros / 550 USD / 349 GBP for a bar? Have they gone
PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2012 10:46 pm 
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recoprianto wrote:
You just took this conversation into the toilet.


Sorry couldnt help myself oops :oops:

recoprianto wrote:
The bars are expensive because people pay it. If no ones buys them, the price goes down. It is really very simple.


Yes Demand, but that is not the only factor!

recoprianto wrote:
Less expensive products probably have a combination of the following: less expensive materials, less R&D which means they are copying others products and are behind the technology curve, or limited support in the form of no shops or reps to talk to.


I also said that.

recoprianto wrote:
Kiting is my #1 hobby, I am willing to pay whatever it takes to get the gear that I really want. Life is too short to ride gear you don't like.


Totaly agree with you there :jump:


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 Post subject: Re: 443 Euros / 550 USD / 349 GBP for a bar? Have they gone
PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2012 11:32 pm 
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Its a conspiracy theory hehe: first kiting appealed to water sports people surfers, wakeboarders, windsurfer that were smart :rollgrin: but now it is more aimed at Yuppie golfer type who are used to paying more? A bar is cheaper thanthe gnarly driver by Callaway this year? A new board isnt. Like a bunch of people said you choose your price point.


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