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 Post subject: 2004 Slingshot Fuel 11m and 2012 CSC Bar Question
PostPosted: Sun Aug 26, 2012 4:35 am 
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Location: San Diego, CA
Question to SS Tech Support:
I’m fairly new to kiting and have spent most of my time on a 17 m Slingshot Turbine, which works well for my location; however, I’m looking to travel towards 20 mph+ wind. I purchased a new condition 2004 11m Slingshot Fuel that had been sitting around for a while and figured it would be an inexpensive way to try a C kite for the first time. Question: Can I use a Slingshot 2012 CSC Bar 17in x 20m with this kite? The front lines appear to be way to long. Was thinking of removing the stock pigtails from the front lines and using them on the back lines to even things out or just adding extensions to my rear lines? Since the front lines run .65 meters longer than the back stock (20m vs 20.65m), is this creating the exaggerated ratio? It makes sense that the front lines would be longer than the back (considering the width of the kite and space for trim adjustment), but it looks like I’ve got almost an extra 1 feet of line to account for.
Appreciate any feedback.

Cheers,
Donavan Brown

Answer:
Update for Case #28376 - "2004 Fuel + 2012 CSC Bar"
I would not use a 2012 bar with a 2004 kite. There isn't anybody that I can ask around here that knows the answers to your questions man sorry. I would just try to figure out what bar came with that kite and buy that. 2004 is super old for a kite man be careful!

Continued:
Anyone on this forum using older C kites with new bars? Was hoping for a better answer from SS tech support, the response is obvious “man”; however, not very thorough. This equipment still has some life in it, and the C-kite technology hasn't changed that much over the years, I plan to extract the remaining hours this kite has to offer. This will be a good exercise for me in kite tuning and understanding legacy products and appreciating the modern updates. Hopefully, helping me make a choice between a kite like the Naish Torch/SS Fuel 14 m or a North Dyno/Rebel of the same size. I like the idea of being able to fly the hell out of my kite, vs just parking it, although I know that seems counterintuitive; hence, my experimentation with an old inexpensive C-kite.

It's already been a fun experiment and the subtle issues I've had have shed light into specific features on new kites, like kook proof line connectors, one pump convenience etc. I got it to fly in 7 mph wind with some basic line adjustments, but still looking for a little more feedback.

Any input on the old kite + new bar, or just kite line adjustment on a Bow, Hybrid vs C-Shape would be appreciated.
I've read most of the white papers on the site about kite tuning, so I'm probably looking for feedback from someone who has flown a similar setup or knows Slingshot products new and old.

Thank You,
Donavan

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 Post subject: Re: 2004 Slingshot Fuel 11m and 2012 CSC Bar Question
PostPosted: Sun Aug 26, 2012 11:30 pm 
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Location: Red Sky Surf & Snow Toledo, OH
Been a long time since I had 2004's but I think they were meant to be flown on equal length lines. Just put longer leaders on the kite and you're fine.

Make sure you know how to relaunch it before it hits water and don't judge new Fuels by that 2004. :thumb:


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 Post subject: Re: 2004 Slingshot Fuel 11m and 2012 CSC Bar Question
PostPosted: Mon Aug 27, 2012 1:24 am 
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I'm using an 05 fuel with a home made bar. I just made sure all the lines were the same length. I set the throw to about 8". That's it.

I don't know about the 04's but the 05 is a fantastic kite. I've got an 07 and an 08 and they're pretty much the same but possibly less HP per sq meter :lol:

So yeah I would just make sure the bar you use for your 04 11m fuel has equal length lines and keep the throw to about 8" max.. if you let the bar out further the kite will likely just get harder to control.


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 Post subject: Re: 2004 Slingshot Fuel 11m and 2012 CSC Bar Question
PostPosted: Mon Aug 27, 2012 5:04 am 
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Location: San Diego, CA
Thank you for the responses, I had already begun to make some leaders for the back lines, so thank you for the reassurance. Nice to hear your 05 is still performing well too. Appreciate both responses tremendously.

I've got two Slingshot CSC bars 2011 & 2012 and both have stock front lines that are .65 m longer than the back. Do all manufactures use this differential? My Blade lines appear to be the same length, which seems more intuitive to me. Guessing if you want the kite to ride further back in the wind window you'd setup the back lines to be shorter than the front by default.

Cheers again, :bye:
Donavan


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 Post subject: Re: 2004 Slingshot Fuel 11m and 2012 CSC Bar Question
PostPosted: Mon Aug 27, 2012 5:16 am 
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it'll be dependent on wind speed, but you'll basically want to be able to sheet in just on the edge of flaring the kite tips (a little bit of flaring is what I prefer). If it's light wind it'll be near where the kite will want to stall out. You don't have to be so theoretical about line lengths, but all equal is a good start or SS pig tails + standard bar usually work just fine.


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 Post subject: Re: 2004 Slingshot Fuel 11m and 2012 CSC Bar Question
PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2012 3:10 am 
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I didn't realize the CSC bar has longer front lines. I just assumed all bars were equipped with equal length lines (when bar is sheeted all the way out of course). For me to use that bar on my kites I would have to install 65cm long pig tails on my kite for the back line connections. That'd be weird.


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 Post subject: Re: 2004 Slingshot Fuel 11m and 2012 CSC Bar Question
PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 9:08 am 
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Finally figured out how ridiculous this question was. After a little research, some somatic exploration, and a little common sense, I finally realized why the Slingshot lines are different lengths. With Slingshot’s proprietary CSS bar they use center lines which connect to the system about .65 meters further down to the 800lb. pigtail, whereas the back lines connect to the bars leader lines (exactly .65m difference). The lines still end up even, which would make the Slingshot bar compatible with any kite, including a legacy Slingshot kite. This could be very confusing if someone where trying to swap line sets with non-Slingshot lines, and even initially wondering why the lines they are connecting to their kite are tagged with different lengths. Love my SS bars the more I dig into the tech, and try to understand exactly why they did it this way.

Ended up using a brand new 2003 8m Fuel to make a light wind trainer kite. By adding about a pig tail length to the center lines and choking all the way up on the brake/steering lines, I made a fun little semi-potent 4 line trainer kite that was a blast to use in 9-10 knots. Figured it would be good to try flying strickly unhooked, or to practice unhooked kiteloops, handle passes etc., without destroying my good kites. All the unhooked stuff is new to me, so time to start digging into the tech of that style. Look for the super fit TRX dude hacking kiteloops at a park near you!
:lol:

Have this idea that I could ride unhooked for about 30 minutes to increase my low end power using an 11-13 m kite in 12k winds; on a 40 CL directional strapless… Hmmmm at 210 lbs., not sure if that “flies”, but I’m gonna give a go. Perfect way to get squeeze a workout into an advanced (or at least technical) riding sesh. :idea:

“I can tell you the license plate numbers of all six cars outside. I can tell you that our waitress is left-handed and the guy sitting up at the counter weighs two hundred and fifteen pounds and knows how to handle himself. I know the best place to look for a gun is the cab of the gray truck outside, and at this altitude, I can run flat out for a half mile before my hands start shaking. Now why would I know that? How can I know that and not know who I am?” – Jason Bourne


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 Post subject: Re: 2004 Slingshot Fuel 11m and 2012 CSC Bar Question
PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 2:48 pm 
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It is crazy what people think to overcome the lack of money ! :o Be carefull with "dinosaur" that your going to fly.kites then where very dangerous with no wind range and gust control :cry:


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 Post subject: Re: 2004 Slingshot Fuel 11m and 2012 CSC Bar Question
PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 3:26 pm 
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Location: Ford Lake, Michigan
i love those old fuels and the cabrinha black tips that's what I mainly ride. So annoying that they make the line lengths different on that compstick bar.

If I had a compstick I would mod the leaders, add .65m length to the control line pigtails and then put on new equal length lines. Nothing is more annoying that a bar with unequal lines. Makes swapping lines a pain.

If you are riding C kites, remember, the 5th line mini-y does not depower the kite you must fully flag out, which I seem to remember the compstick does so you should be fine. I ride all kinds of bars with my old C kites, just make sure the line length at the kite is equal and your safety works, and you are good.

When they sold those kites, most people rode them 5 line style so you can flag out on the 5th line and have easier relaunch. Personally I like riding them 4 line style and swim to the kite to relaunch etc.


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 Post subject: Re: 2004 Slingshot Fuel 11m and 2012 CSC Bar Question
PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 3:32 pm 
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trxdude wrote:
The lines still end up even, which would make the Slingshot bar compatible with any kite, including a legacy Slingshot kite.


So you didn't check this from the get go? you measured the individual line lengths :lol:
When buying a 2nd hand bar the first thing I do is a quick sanity check... lay out the lines, connect them to something solid, sheet trim all the way out, pull on the bar to tension all the flying lines and make sure all the lines rise and fall together and have more or less equal tension in them. If any of them have slack relative to the others I fix it so they have even tension (equal length).

Most bars from the factory are like this... the lines end up even when installed properly on the bar.
Now some bars allow for different attachment points on the bar leaders but they are usually connected initially so that the lines end up even.

Always start with a bar with the lines even. Go from there and make tweeks to suit.

As an aside if you kite in nasty conditions and on your own at times you might consider installing a 5th line on your bar in case things get out of control... makes it safer to launch and land... which is normally where all hell breaks lose.


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