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 Post subject: Re: Strutless kite in development on Maui
PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2012 4:16 am 
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plummet wrote:
Peter_Frank wrote:
plummet wrote:
I'm trying to understand how the no strut kite works. the only thing i can come up with is mega pressure. Have you stiffened the le bladder and pump 20-30 psi into it?

ps is it a light wind only kite? the vid seems to be light wind.


???

A strutless kite dont need more (nor less) LE pressure, just the very same :thumb:

:D Peter


explain! if that was the case then everyone would have strutless designs.

...I wrote a crazy long reply, but somehow got logged out / timed out and lost it all. Argh. I'll try again. To my thinking struts may not affect LE stability. I could list a million things that I think do affect LE stability, but that wasn't maybe your question. Before I began this project, I didn't know what results I'd find. Wouldn't have surprised me if it would hardly fly at all without something stabilizing the canopy. I've been stoked to find that proper foiling (in combination with a ton of other variables) does not require any additional support to be rock solid, even at varying loads and at varying angles of attack. Fascinating, which is why I wanted to start blogging about what's going on.


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 Post subject: Re: Strutless kite in development on Maui
PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2012 4:19 am 
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Location: OUTER BANKS (NC) USA. Owner of EPICKITES
Nice job Mr.boardriding maui on the kite and on the music plus the entire ambiance.
:thumb:


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 Post subject: Re: Strutless kite in development on Maui
PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2012 4:26 am 
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aeberl wrote:
Bill Hansen has been working on a similar concept in the past, it seems that the market is gradually getting ready for "out of the box" designs.
I have my doubts about "no strut" reraunch, would like to see a solution to that.

Bill Hansen; Windwing, right? If so, seems to have had a pretty innovate history. I haven't seen any of his strutless work, but I'd be interested! The only similar strutless development I had seen was from Airush. Couldn't gather any info on how it worked. Presumably not great because I couldn't find any followup in the following years.
- I'd say kitesurfers are well ahead of the curve for adapting to new ideas. If there hasn't been enough out of the box stuff happening, I'm not inclined to think this is on the customer side.
- I totally shared your doubts regarding relaunch. Totally. And, while I'm still sure there are plenty of scenarios where the design will fail to relaunch, it hasn't been an issue so far. And, even when I run into a speed bump, flies so good it will be well worth it.


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 Post subject: Re: Strutless kite in development on Maui
PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2012 4:31 am 
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rightguard wrote:
Seems like the only need for struts is for relaunch... Is that true? Like the new Naish Ride, seems nice but can have some issues with relaunch with only two side struts. My Park does a little better with three.

Why don't we just have little fiberglass struts like on a hang glider? Seems like that would keep the airfoil cleaner. Maybe fiberglass struts would cause damage to the kite in a crash...

I'm inclined to agree with you about struts maybe only being needed to enhance relaunch. But, I never experienced any relaunch difference between the 2 strut and 3. So I know, can you describe?
- About fiberglass struts, was ready to add them, but found no need. Lighter, simpler, more better?


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 Post subject: Re: Strutless kite in development on Maui
PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2012 4:55 am 
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Location: Tarifa / Got 2 Ovandos and a Ripper
FredBGG wrote:

Also really like the graphics... NONE!



Yeah .... finally a kite with plain colors

boardriding maui : If you are looking to perform some real testing ( Tarifa nuclear gusty conditions ) and you happen to have a 9m ( or smaller ) lying around send it over to me :naughty:

I don't think any kite ( no matter the brand ) is released to the public until it has not been tested in Tarifa ...

I pay the return mailing charges ...

Saludos :jump:


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 Post subject: Re: Strutless kite in development on Maui
PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2012 6:04 am 
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[quote=I'm trying to understand how the no strut kite works. the only thing i can come up with is mega pressure. Have you stiffened the le bladder and pump 20-30 psi into it?

ps is it a light wind only kite? the vid seems to be light wind.[/quote]



A strutless kite dont need more (nor less) LE pressure, just the very same :thumb:

:D Peter[/quote]

explain! if that was the case then everyone would have strutless designs.[/quote]
...I wrote a crazy long reply, but somehow got logged out / timed out and lost it all. Argh. I'll try again. To my thinking struts may not affect LE stability. I could list a million things that I think do affect LE stability, but that wasn't maybe your question. Before I began this project, I didn't know what results I'd find. Wouldn't have surprised me if it would hardly fly at all without something stabilizing the canopy. I've been stoked to find that proper foiling (in combination with a ton of other variables) does not require any additional support to be rock solid, even at varying loads and at varying angles of attack. Fascinating, which is why I wanted to start blogging about what's going on.[/quote][/quote]


This still sound mysterious to me ???,can you video this kite doing kiteloop with the kiter feet off the water in 25 knots wind to see if the canopy is still maintain its shape without widening or wobbling its frame?i'm sure there are many days with wind over 30 knots in Maui.


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 Post subject: Re: Strutless kite in development on Maui
PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2012 7:47 am 
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Here is a previous discussion on strutless designs:

http://www.kiteforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=2368536

You should cooperate and make a great kite together!


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 Post subject: Re: Strutless kite in development on Maui
PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2012 8:24 am 
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thank you for the link,i watched the strutless kite video,the kite was wobble or oscillated in flight too much (evidenced by the canopy fabric got wrinkle and flappy in the air) even without kiteloop and relaunch or self launch was not easy even on land,canopy is laying flat to the ground and seem resist to rising up to catch wind.


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 Post subject: Re: Strutless kite in development on Maui
PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2012 9:01 am 
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My apologies to some posters that I had to log off before I could respond to and thank everyone. And thanks for the stoke since.

Thanks for posting the link to previous discussion. I had seen the video, but not the dialogue, which is probably a good thing. Yesterday was my first post ever, and I surely would not have done so had I read all the comments from people speaking in such absolutes. Madness. My version of that would go, "I saw a 3 strut kite _____ once, so clearly all 3 strut kites do the same." Fill in the blank with whatever you like.

I'm sure we all agree that every design is unique. On my side, I'll be sure not to feature "strutless" in the future because, while interesting, that in itself was never the goal. The goal is light, fast, fun, range - whatever it is that myself, my family and friends want to ride.


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 Post subject: Re: Strutless kite in development on Maui
PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2012 10:23 am 
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boardriding maui wrote:
My apologies to some posters that I had to log off before I could respond to and thank everyone. And thanks for the stoke since.

Thanks for posting the link to previous discussion. I had seen the video, but not the dialogue, which is probably a good thing. Yesterday was my first post ever, and I surely would not have done so had I read all the comments from people speaking in such absolutes. Madness. My version of that would go, "I saw a 3 strut kite _____ once, so clearly all 3 strut kites do the same." Fill in the blank with whatever you like.

I'm sure we all agree that every design is unique. On my side, I'll be sure not to feature "strutless" in the future because, while interesting, that in itself was never the goal. The goal is light, fast, fun, range - whatever it is that myself, my family and friends want to ride.

This is all very interesting and promising. You have such a great attitude that the least you will achieve is to have a great time exploring kite technology. That granted, I feel you have a very high chance of having created or eventually creating an excellent product. Thanks for sharing! Keep posting! :thumb:


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