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 Post subject: Why do we use a hook? - Its dangerous!
PostPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2012 10:47 pm 
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Hello Kiters,

The other day, my bar got stuck in the hook of my Harness. Just where the bar joins the line.

I almost died.

I droped the kite in the water, surfing. Then, I dont know how, the bar and line were stuck in the hook.

The wind was 35 knots, the kite 6 meters started to loop like krazy... I used the quick release, and that was for nothing... The bar and line were stuck in the hook. I went in land, and was taken like 150 meters, until the kite bang in the floor... I had 3 seconds to unhook the line, and he started to loop again, this time by the leash... The quick release didnt depowered the kite because the lines were all twisted. I took the last pull, and the carabiner of the leash broked.

After that, talking to people, I heard about similar accidents.

Then, I started thinking... Why do I use a hook? I never unhook kiting... So, there is no need for a hook. That is really dangerous.

So, I will adapt a locking carabiner to attach the chickenloop, instead of a hook. Nothing will get inside a locking binner, no lines, no bar. Then, I will be safe.

For the kiters that unhook, good luck. For those that dont unhook, I dont see why to use a hook.

Cheers!

Andre


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 Post subject: Re: Why do we use a hook? - Its dangerous!
PostPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2012 11:22 pm 
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Location: Papua New Guinea
I agree and am working on that now! Same thing about a handlepass leash, it's just for fashion if you don't do handle passes.


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 Post subject: Re: Why do we use a hook? - Its dangerous!
PostPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2012 11:30 pm 
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WildDuke wrote:
I agree and am working on that now! Same thing about a handlepass leash, it's just for fashion if you don't do handle passes.



Really? Just for fashion?????


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 Post subject: Re: Why do we use a hook? - Its dangerous!
PostPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2012 11:30 pm 
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WildDuke wrote:
I agree and am working on that now! Same thing about a handlepass leash, it's just for fashion if you don't do handle passes.


If you have nice ideas how to make it without a hook, please, share......

Thanks!


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 Post subject: Re: Why do we use a hook? - Its dangerous!
PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2012 12:49 am 
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Location: Oahu
well carabiners aren't safe either.

They have a very weird way of releasing. many of them needs to be pulled at a certain angle to work properly.


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 Post subject: Re: Why do we use a hook? - Its dangerous!
PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2012 1:24 am 
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Location: PASA Level III Instructor FL- OBX - MI - the world
check ot the key ball system that Julian Bethwaite has developed for skiff sailors...maybe of interest/food for thought?

http://www.ps2000.ca/estore/trapeze.htm


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 Post subject: Re: Why do we use a hook? - Its dangerous!
PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2012 2:17 am 
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fourperf wrote:
WildDuke wrote:
I agree and am working on that now! Same thing about a handlepass leash, it's just for fashion if you don't do handle passes.



Really? Just for fashion?????


Absolutely, unless you are riding unhooked and doing handle passes the handle pass leash attachment is one of the most dangerous things you could use. Anyone, especially beginners who are connecting there leash to the back of their harness are either ignorant of the danger or just trying to look cool.... In a word, poser. A beginner which happens to find themselves in a death loop will be pulled backwards through the water with very little chance of finding or being able to release the kite. The only reason to hook your leash to the back of your harness is to do unhooked handle pass tricks... How many Kiters are actually doing these? So yes fashionable is a very polite way to say... Thats really f'n dumb unless...


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 Post subject: Re: Why do we use a hook? - Its dangerous!
PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2012 2:38 am 
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Glad you're ok!!! :o

+1 what LaughingMan said. Even experienced riders, I've seen submarine with the handle pass setup...

robertovillate wrote:
check ot the key ball system that Julian Bethwaite has developed for skiff sailors...maybe of interest/food for thought?

http://www.ps2000.ca/estore/trapeze.htm

Nice idea but... I don't think it'll work for kiters, who spin around and unload the hook often.

I'd prefer a captive system too though - lost my kite in Thailand when I splashed down, hit the bottom of the lagoon and the kite unhooked. Thankfully, it stopped before the palm trees :o


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 Post subject: Re: Why do we use a hook? - Its dangerous!
PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2012 3:09 am 
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OK, so i have been playing around with this for a while and i totally agree on both points if you do not unhook.

the leash is easy, cut it shorter, sew it back up and attach it to front side of the harness. easy breezy.

the hook is a bit tricker but not much,
you cut off the hook flush to the bar, find a 3" SS U bolt, drill out the bar all the way through at the right width,
put the bolt thru the bar until just an inch or so of the U part is out the front,
weld the four spots of the bolt to fill in the holes and cut the back of the two bolt ends off

then you just put your chicken loop through the U-bar and you have the best "sliding" hook system

1 )it means you have to use your quick release EVERY TIME you "hook/unhook" which is great muscle memory practice
2) you can not unhook by accident
3) you can not get stuck with the hook as described above
4) it is way better for toe side as the chicken loop moves a bit to the side but not far enough to lose the depower throw and more importantly it pulls from right against you body, not out away from you with the torque that goes with it so the bar does not lift or twist nearly as much
5) the feel jumping is not affected at all
6) way easier in the waves

try it...


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 Post subject: Re: Why do we use a hook? - Its dangerous!
PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2012 3:44 am 
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Location: PASA Level III Instructor FL- OBX - MI - the world
Kamikuza wrote:
Glad you're ok!!! :o

+1 what LaughingMan said. Even experienced riders, I've seen submarine with the handle pass setup...

robertovillate wrote:
check ot the key ball system that Julian Bethwaite has developed for skiff sailors...maybe of interest/food for thought?

http://www.ps2000.ca/estore/trapeze.htm

Nice idea but... I don't think it'll work for kiters, who spin around and unload the hook often.

I'd prefer a captive system too though - lost my kite in Thailand when I splashed down, hit the bottom of the lagoon and the kite unhooked. Thankfully, it stopped before the palm trees :o


My thought was that the ball could engage with a quick release within the keyole spreader bar AND a QR above the spreader bar. Ideally this would all be incorporated into the control bar/centerline system. This could possibly be a "belt and suspenders" system if thought out properly. One nice feature would be the fact that the ball swivels and does not torsion load the spreader bar. I'm a Dynabar user so I really like the fully articulating hook for this reason as well.

For riders who like to ride unhooked there could be a press-fit option to easily capture and release the ball...just thinking out loud here.


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