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 Post subject: Re: Whats the fastest light weight kite
PostPosted: Wed Sep 05, 2012 3:03 pm 
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ChristoffM wrote:
I have recently started kite hydrofoiling, and all of a sudden my biggest kite which used to be fast feels too big and too slow. I have a 14m blade vertigo, and it was amazingly fast for its size when I got it, but now the foil begs for a faster kite when the wind is really light. I get about the same low wind performance from my 10m Vertigo so maybe I must just forget a bigger kite? But those light wind conditions are so nice on a hydrofoil, I just want to push the low wind limit to the max.

Can anyone recommend a very fast kite, but that is light weight as well? Preferably no more than three struts, but fast through the sky and fast turning as well. Something like the SS turbine looks like it would fit the requirements, but I am looking for about a 12 or 13m kite. Any suggestions out there?



A bit puzzled about what you seek, but might think that many will not be able to respond ?

You ask for a "fast" kite - and thereby I understand you mean a "fast turning kite" ?

At least that is how the term is understood by most readers in this forum.


What do you need -

A kite that is super agile, and can be tossed around like you wish ?

Or a kite that generates loads of power when you work it ?


1. If you "only" want a fast turning kite, there are LOTS of kites.

2. If you want a fast turning kite with loads of bottom end, there are many kites.

3. If you want a fast turning kite that produces a lot of power and goes upwind well, there are only very very few :roll:

For #1 low AR "fat" kites will turn fast, but they will not generate much power when worked (as they sit deeper and will not accelerate much because of more drag).

For #2 the same as #1 just a cambered profile with little depower. Will generate some power when worked, but not still not a lot.

For #3 (I assume might be your desire), you need a kite that turns fast, and FLIES fast !
Meaning typically higher AR so less drag and more speed thus much more lift.
But higher AR will make the kite turn slower and less efficient - so these two desires pull the opposite way each of them :wink:


Then there are many compromises that can do a bit of everything (or just as bad at everything is another way of putting it...)


Above is the general way "kites" behave, but important to know in order to know what one is aiming for :thumb:


Maybe you want a particulary extremely agile kite specifically because of the foilboard, or ?

What do you think is the difference since you can not use big kites in light wind like raceboard riders do - is it too difficult to "get started" ?

Curious - as I dont know - never ridden a foilboard.... 8)

:D Peter


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 Post subject: Re: Whats the fastest light weight kite
PostPosted: Thu Sep 06, 2012 10:24 am 
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Joined: Sun Feb 09, 2003 5:29 pm
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Location: Stockholm, Sweden
Hi,

The Flysurfer Speed 3 Deluxe Edition 12m weighs 2.3 kg (kite-only). It's pretty fast too.

http://www.flysurfer.com/produkte/kites/speed3/

Not sure if the low weight really improves light wind, but I have been doing a bit of snow kite backcountry touring. When skiing with the kite on your back for a week (when there's no wind), one kg counts.

Daniel


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 Post subject: Re: Whats the fastest light weight kite
PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2012 6:26 pm 
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Location: Langebaan (Cape Town)
Hi

Yes, I should clarify my question. What I found was the following:

The 14m in really light wind has enough power to pull me up and get me onto the foil (board up and far less drag). But only if I power the kite through the power zone and go downwind a little bit. As soon as the board it up, it has less drag and wants to speed up. I cannot go downwind, since the foil will go downwind too fast and relative wind speed drops too far, so I start going more square to the wind (not upwind yet, but almost). Then I out ride the kite before it has time to fly from the power zone of the wind window to the edge of the wind window. It is just not fast enough in a straight line to catch up to me and start pulling me forward (in this case forward means perpendicular to the wind direction in the direction I intend on riding). And before the kite can get to the edge of the window I start to loose enough speed to drop back onto the water.

It feels to me that I can get up onto the foil no matter whether I use the 14m or the 10m at very very light wind condition, because as soon as the 14m will keep me going, the 10m can also (maybe half a knot wind speed difference but I need to try both more to be sure).

I always want to push the light wind limit (Pretoria where I stay is probably the least windy city in the world). So my thinking is that if the 14m was faster in a straight line (normally high AR kite with thin leading edge but not always), then I might get a knot or two better bottom end. But the bottom end is becoming so low, that I still want a light weight kite (so that it can be parked at 45 degrees without falling out the sky like a heavy kite in really light wind). And since I need to throw the kite around to get up and onto the foil, I still want a reasonably fast turning kite. I am flying 1700m above sea level, so that takes away probably another 20% of the kites power for a given wind speed due to the lower air pressure.

So ideal kite would be firstly fast (fast through the wind window in a straight line while generating power), but also light weight (so I do not have to keep steering it around just to keep it in the sky while trying to get out in the water with an awkward board), and fast turning so that I can generate power to get up and onto the foil.

So ideal kite? Yes, there are very few you are right. I though I had discovered just that right balance of all those factor with the blade vertigo (three strut kite, light weight, fast turning and relatively fast through the sky, especially for a three strut kite. It sits more towards the edge of the wind window than most three strut kites). But now I wonder if there is anything better out there.

I think they should make a battened racing kite with a very with leading edge and only one strut. One strut and thin leading edge will keep the mass down, a couple of light weight battens will get the performance up similar to having lots of struts, but should be much lighter than inflatable struts. I've flown the Peter Lynn racing inflatable kite, and I was really surprised how fast such a high AR racing type kite can turn if it is designed well.


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 Post subject: Re: Whats the fastest light weight kite
PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2012 1:39 pm 
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Joined: Sun Jun 26, 2011 5:56 pm
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Try the Zeeko XLW 14 or 17

Perfect kites in lightwind


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 Post subject: Re: Whats the fastest light weight kite
PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2012 4:19 am 
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check out the Blade Trigger as it is a light weight kite that is very fast turning and seems to stay in the sky easily in light winds.
if you want a bigger kite the Blade Fat lady is a light as they come for LEI kites and looks similar to the trigger design


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 Post subject: Re: Whats the fastest light weight kite
PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2012 6:36 am 
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You explained it perfectly ChristoffM :thumb:

And I think most responding here dont listen to what you are asking for :wink:

You want (I do too myself) a kite that is FAST, meaning, lots of flying speed and acceleration, so it is capable of generating lots of apparent wind speed power by flying the kite, but most of all - you want a kite that can be flown to a specific point in the window whenever you want it to - FAST, so you dont outrun a slow kite because of your super fast low drag foil board.

So a kite with some power, but maybe still a fast profile, and not too high AR, and light - meaning a very low drag kite that can accelerate, and hang up there in lulls of course.

Whereas most "typical" big fat low wind kites today (that are recommended in this thread by some), are very low AR super profiled (cambered) kites - which is almost the exact opposite of what you want :o

Of course you would also like it to be fast turning (which is another thing as fast), but not the foremost wish, as a big fat high drag powerful kite that sits deep, is almost the LAST you want (as you've tried that I can read), eventhough it turns fast - as it flies and accelerates extremely slow :(

So an adequate fast turning kite, flying really fast and low drag, and light - is your wish ChristoffM, right ?

:D Peter


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 Post subject: Re: Whats the fastest light weight kite
PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2012 7:16 am 
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Posts: 77
Dear,

I'm just back from the race french championship.
During the race all the riders were equipped with GPS and the datas were recorded here.
On the contest the 8 best riders were riding foil boards (the first race board was Bruno Sroka)

We were ridding kites between 15 and 12m.
I rode mainly 14m Notus XLW from my brand.
And the result is I had the best Max speed (this is not a world record but with the wind we had max 12knots that's not too bad).
Results here: (my name is Nicolas Caillou):
http://live.mygeolive.com/geoPortal.asp ... 8252bb42f6
Max Speed: 44Km/h in 12knots wind

For light wind, a Medium High AR is a very good.
Ride easy
Nicolas


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 Post subject: Re: Whats the fastest light weight kite
PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2012 7:34 am 
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Location: Teahupo'o, Tahiti
Get a used F-One Bandit 5 Christoff and be done with it. Pricing will be good now that the 6 has arrived. Or get what you know there's a 12 Blade selling on iKiteboarding for a bargain.


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 Post subject: Re: Whats the fastest light weight kite
PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2012 8:39 am 
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I heard from a friend that Royal has some light fast new kites. Perhaps its worth to check out.

cheers


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 Post subject: Re: Whats the fastest light weight kite
PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2012 9:43 am 
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Location: Teahupo'o, Tahiti
mariod2 wrote:
I heard from a friend that Royal has some light fast new kites. Perhaps its worth to check out.

cheers


Yeah if you like throwing money away. I wouldn't touch Royal until they resolve the unshipped kites issue :nono:

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=2375642


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