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 Post subject: Re: Why do we use a hook? - Its dangerous!
PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2012 6:30 am 
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I see what you mean, Roberto. It would add extra length too... be better to just replace the CL with the connector!

Whoa... a whole new way of connecting to the kite :o I better my lawyers on the patent papers :lol:

knotwindy wrote:
OK, so i have been playing around with this for a while and i totally agree on both points if you do not unhook.

the leash is easy, cut it shorter, sew it back up and attach it to front side of the harness. easy breezy.

the hook is a bit tricker but not much,
you cut off the hook flush to the bar, find a 3" SS U bolt, drill out the bar all the way through at the right width,
put the bolt thru the bar until just an inch or so of the U part is out the front,
weld the four spots of the bolt to fill in the holes and cut the back of the two bolt ends off

then you just put your chicken loop through the U-bar and you have the best "sliding" hook system

1 )it means you have to use your quick release EVERY TIME you "hook/unhook" which is great muscle memory practice
2) you can not unhook by accident
3) you can not get stuck with the hook as described above
4) it is way better for toe side as the chicken loop moves a bit to the side but not far enough to lose the depower throw and more importantly it pulls from right against you body, not out away from you with the torque that goes with it so the bar does not lift or twist nearly as much
5) the feel jumping is not affected at all
6) way easier in the waves

try it...

Won't work with Cab or LF CL's - any CL that 'splits' and doesn't open the CL :(


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 Post subject: Re: Why do we use a hook? - Its dangerous!
PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2012 7:06 am 
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We have done this years ago. A carabiner or shackle is more dangerous then your hook catching the bar.
You can fix your problem by making your hook tighter (bend it).
We where fixed to our gear and got tangled up like you would not believe. The biners never open under load, are never where you think they are, etc.
Don't do it.

Of all the people kiting, how many times does the hook catch the bar? .001 % maybe


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 Post subject: Re: Why do we use a hook? - Its dangerous!
PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2012 7:17 am 
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knotwindy wrote:
the leash is easy, cut it shorter, sew it back up and attach it to front side of the harness. easy breezy.
Did it two years ago.

knotwindy wrote:
the hook is a bit tricker but not much,
you cut off the hook flush to the bar, find a 3" SS U bolt, drill out the bar all the way through at the right width, put the bolt thru the bar until just an inch or so of the U part is out the front,
weld the four spots of the bolt to fill in the holes and cut the back of the two bolt ends off
then you just put your chicken loop through the U-bar and you have the best "sliding" hook system

1) it means you have to use your quick release EVERY TIME you "hook/unhook" which is great muscle memory practice
2) you can not unhook by accident
3) you can not get stuck with the hook as described above
4) it is way better for toe side as the chicken loop moves a bit to the side but not far enough to lose the depower throw and more importantly it pulls from right against you body, not out away from you with the torque that goes with it so the bar does not lift or twist nearly as much
5) the feel jumping is not affected at all
6) way easier in the waves
Did it six months ago.


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 Post subject: Re: Why do we use a hook? - Its dangerous!
PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2012 8:25 am 
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Location: Teahupo'o, Tahiti
I agree that there is always a chance that lines can get caught on the hook its a accident waiting to happen and until now there has not really been a push to develop something safer. It's a risk we all take going out on the water.

But straying off topic slightly someone commented that a Handle Pass leash/KITE LEASH is there only for fashion :roll: do you even listen to yourself? If you think a handle pass leash/kite leash is there purely for handle passes you need to a wake up call mate. 1. Either you're David Hasselhoff and kite out further than you can swim 2. You don't stray to far from the beach kiting in knee high water the whole time or 3. You Mr Money bags and can afford to dump a kite and have a new one pumped up waiting on the beach for you. Which is it? Think man! The MAIN purpose for a leash is to de-power the kite while still having it attached to you in case you need to swim back to your kite and self rescue. There are a lot of beginners that frequent the forum so be careful what info you put out there!

Another point. Who said you should be connecting your leash at the back of your harness anyway? You see the PRO's do it and figure because there's a handle at the back with connecting ring naturally that where it goes? In that case yes you are asking for a submarining! Again I say STOP and think! connect the dam thing on the front near your harness hook. The total emergency release It's more accessible in that position and you will not get pulled backwards!

Don't believe me let Arron explain it. Skip to 3:45



Bottom line is it's KITEBOARDING people not GOLF! No matter how much safer the sport becomes you are still taping into mother nature as the power source and with that there will always be inherent risk. Also just take a moment and think before you go out just because you see everyone out on the water with Kite-leashes attached on the back does not mean you should be doing it. It's a KITE LEASH first and foremost not a HANDLE PASS LEASH!


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 Post subject: Re: Why do we use a hook? - Its dangerous!
PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2012 8:39 am 
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I'm also very interested in the possibility of eliminate the hook , without making the born of other problems !
can you please put some photos of wath you have done ? (knotwindy / oldnbroken)
3 mounths ago I have a rib broken by the hook in a very strange fall in the water ....


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 Post subject: Re: Why do we use a hook? - Its dangerous!
PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2012 9:15 am 
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Hi to the audience, I'm the designer of DYNABAR sliding hook system and I feel a bit sad to see that after 3 years of effort to improve security on our products kiters have these problems.

You have hundred of posts explaining why kiters like DYNABAR but I will try to summarise here:

    DYNABAR main feature is sliding hook to improve body movement and limit back stress
    DYNABAR mounts two types of hook, traditional and ring hook, The ring hook can be used by attaching the CL and you have to release QR to unhook
    DYNABAR has a hook locker (U bolt) that can be used to lock sliding hook or to attach directly your CL
    DYNABAR V7 has a release dyneema option, it is not a safety system but allows you to release hook in some cases
    DYNABAR V7 has a front dyneema slider for the kite leash and is perfect for HP leash too.

At the beginning of October the DYNABAR XT harness will be available (the most advanced harness ever, plenty of new features!) a complete solution for your preferred sport. :thumb:

PS: Mystic is entering the market with a sliding hook solution, we are glad that finally our vision is shared by leading brands!


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 Post subject: Re: Why do we use a hook? - Its dangerous!
PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2012 9:20 am 
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@JMF: The point was clear to most of us, that it is dangerous and seems stupid to connect the leash to the back or backslider, if you dont do handle passes 8)
And that was what they meant by using the term "handle pass leash" instead of just "safety leash" or "kite leash" :thumb:

Personally, I agree fully with FabsPH that the other type of shackle releases we have been using for years, earlier - was way too dangerous.

So I would prefer to have a release that is very reliable.

And secondly - I like to have a hook so IF the release jams, you might be able to hook out manually even if it requires the DD to be opened too.

Maybe just me - but I prefer to have the option to get myself out of trouble, if the primary releases dont work, so being fixed "too much" is not good IMO.

The chance that the bar gets caught, is smaller than the risks of a fixed connection in my eyes - but of course a personal choice.

:D Peter


PS: I dont like when the connection point "slides" or can move in any ways, and prefer a very fixed position - and the same with the harness - it should NOT move or slide at all.
Also personal - some prefer a sliding hook.
But that is a whole different topic than what the OP started !


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 Post subject: Re: Why do we use a hook? - Its dangerous!
PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2012 9:27 am 
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time to get this post going :thumb:

I think hook it's just a remnant of windsurfing and kiteboarding needs something different
(all this shoul be started 10 years ago ) :-?


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 Post subject: Re: Why do we use a hook? - Its dangerous!
PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2012 9:38 am 
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jaystore wrote:
PS: Mystic is entering the market with a sliding hook solution, we are glad that finally our vision is shared by leading brands!


The first DaKine Pyro 10 years ago had a sliding harness hook. It allowed for side to side movement albeit not as much as the new Mystic 8)


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 Post subject: Re: Why do we use a hook? - Its dangerous!
PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2012 9:45 am 
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maddy wrote:
time to get this post going :thumb:

I think hook it's just a remnant of windsurfing and kiteboarding needs something different
(all this shoul be started 10 years ago ) :-?


I agree!


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