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Why do we use a hook? - Its dangerous!

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jaystore
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Re: Why do we use a hook? - Its dangerous!

Postby jaystore » Wed Sep 12, 2012 10:02 am

@Peter_Frank
This topic is about safety of "hooks", doesn't matter is fixed or sliding, I have been working on it for some years now and I feel charged of the responsability to share it with kiters, no adv pimping involved in this. You should be informed that if you have kites with pigtails on wing tips to trim speed is thanks to NORTH and me that suggested them to find a solution after the death of a friend of mine.

I don't know your skill and kitesurfing knowledge, but before you express any personal "feeling" about a solution please try it first :thumb:

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Re: Why do we use a hook? - Its dangerous!

Postby plummet » Wed Sep 12, 2012 10:32 am

For a start that sounds like a nasty accident. ouch.

My prefered safest method of self launch is using a teather. I want a hook on my harness to easily hook on an off the teather. the last thing i want is trying to carabina on or using my CL to connect to a harness loop solo launching in stupid winds.

So for me the hook stays. I've never had a bar could in the haness but have been damn pleased of ease of entry exit of the hook system solo launching/landing hundreds if not thousands of times.

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Re: Why do we use a hook? - Its dangerous!

Postby ronnie » Wed Sep 12, 2012 10:51 am

Like plummet, I have also found that the hook has an advantage when using a tethered launch.

I dont unhook, so if I am not going to be using a tethered launch, then I dont feel the need for a hook.

There are various alternatives such as the sliding on a rope system, or something else attached to the centre of the bar.

You could cut the hook off leaving two short bumps to keep the rope in the centre of the bar, the have;

A sliding rope and use the normal Q/R that comes with the kite bar.

A locking carabiner tied to the centre of the bar and grind the end of it down to take a Cabrinha type Q/R.

A rope tied to the centre of the bar that has a ring on the end that you pass your chickenloop through and close the chickenloop Q/R. You could also fit an extra Q/R on the rope if you wanted to and it didn't take the bar too far away.

I'm not recommending any of these systems, especially as shown in the photos, but they just illustrate some of the other ideas instead of a hook. Generally, its more difficult to reconnect the primary Q/R and get flying again with these systems than when using a fixed hook.
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Re: Why do we use a hook? - Its dangerous!

Postby maddy » Wed Sep 12, 2012 11:28 am

fine but
the thing should work to hoock and un-hoock comfortably

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Re: Why do we use a hook? - Its dangerous!

Postby Séb » Wed Sep 12, 2012 1:03 pm

During the winter I do snowkite in ski and when you ski the tension in on your side rather than in front. So for me it was uncomfortable because it create a twist in my knee and I had a lot of pain which I don't have on water. Since two years I now use a sliding system and there is no hook, it's a very simple release system that work great and is swivel. The only problem is that if you attach it to the CL, the bar will be farther from you or you have to attach it in front of the CL but I don't like it as the tension at the connection point become at an angle and I fear that it could affect the release. I just need to find a solution about this detail but it is really nice. I use a Mystic force shield seat harness and I just removed the clicker bar system and attach the rope with two large D shaped metal ring and the rope pass into the ring on the release mechanism just like in the video below. This system is used in Quebec on a winter kite called Paraskiflex. I just found a video on YouTube of a guys who show how it work, I didn't had any problem with mine :

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Re: Why do we use a hook? - Its dangerous!

Postby SalmonSlayer » Wed Sep 12, 2012 1:53 pm

Séb wrote:During the winter I do snowkite in ski and when you ski the tension in on your side rather than in front. So for me it was uncomfortable because it create a twist in my knee and I had a lot of pain which I don't have on water. Since two years I now use a sliding system and there is no hook, it's a very simple release system that work great and is swivel. The only problem is that if you attach it to the CL, the bar will be farther from you or you have to attach it in front of the CL but I don't like it as the tension at the connection point become at an angle and I fear that it could affect the release. I just need to find a solution about this detail but it is really nice. I use a Mystic force shield seat harness and I just removed the clicker bar system and attach the rope with two large D shaped metal ring and the rope pass into the ring on the release mechanism just like in the video below. This system is used in Quebec on a winter kite called Paraskiflex. I just found a video on YouTube of a guys who show how it work, I didn't had any problem with mine :


I did not see the QR listed as a product on the Paraskiflex website.Do you have a link to a place where the QR can be purchased?

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Re: Why do we use a hook? - Its dangerous!

Postby ronnie » Wed Sep 12, 2012 2:34 pm

Its operating much like a Wichard.

Panic snap hooks with swivel eye is a common description.

Seem to occasionally be made in brass, bronze or nickel.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/National-N22298 ... 27c9a8ae97

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Marty
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Re: Why do we use a hook? - Its dangerous!

Postby Marty » Wed Sep 12, 2012 2:45 pm

Image

I like the Ozone harness with no hook,
it is simple, and very comfortable.

I use it in the snow, but not in the water.

link to larger image
http://tinyurl.com/8fr45ka

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Peter_Frank
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Re: Why do we use a hook? - Its dangerous!

Postby Peter_Frank » Wed Sep 12, 2012 3:26 pm

WildDuke wrote:
maddy wrote:time to get this post going :thumb:

I think hook it's just a remnant of windsurfing and kiteboarding needs something different
(all this shoul be started 10 years ago ) :-?


I agree!


I dont see that...

In the early days, yes - it was just a remnant of windsurfing, true.

A fixed harness line with no quick release but no donkeydick either.

Then, the CL and donkeydick came, and before unhooked got widely used - we rode and tested for years with different fixed schackle systems.
But most or everyone has abandoned these again, and using the hook and CL today, also for hooked riding, because of the ease and simplicity and safety.

Why do we need something different than windsurfing ?

Isnt a hook perfect to catch the CL and hook in/out easy ?

Is there much (if any) difference between what windsurfing and kitesurfing want in this respect ?

There might be - thus a serious question (I just dont know what...)

Hooked it might be another issue, yes.

But as said - I prefer to be able to unhook myself if several things go wrong, so personally I like a hook and not a closed eye.

Different likings, I know 8)

:D Peter

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Re: Why do we use a hook? - Its dangerous!

Postby rightguard » Wed Sep 12, 2012 3:54 pm

I don't like the idea of having a fixed attachment as there are other reasons to unhook... Like stated launching and landing. As Peter just mentioned... I also like to be able to push off the chicken loop in case of problems. Personally I think it's easy to just push down on the hook to release chicken loop or to untangle what might be tangled on the hook.

I do wonder if we could just switch things around... What if the chicken loop and safety release were on the harness and the hook was on the depower line. Not quit that easy but you get the idea.


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