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Cabrinha IDS malfunction

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jteabird
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Cabrinha IDS malfunction

Postby jteabird » Fri Sep 21, 2012 3:53 am

So What's the deal. I have 2012 cabrinha kites, love the kite but find the safety system eally dangerous . Had this happen to me now several times. . I was ending my session and was on the beach alone so I set my kite down and activated the IDS, the kite flipped upsides down and relaunched flying straight above my head upside down Now what to do since I on a small landing area with a powered kite flying upside down and the safety already activated. Seen this happen to plenty of other people also i seen a girl do the same, she activated her IDS in the water the kite flipped upside down pulled her into shore and landed in a tree Another time I had a few twist in my lines and tried activating the IDS. Oops ( warning ) you IDS may not work if you have some twist in your lines. It will not let the IDS line slide because the center line wraps around the IDS line and the It gets stuck.

acctx
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Re: Cabrinha IDS malfunction

Postby acctx » Fri Sep 21, 2012 8:16 am

jteabird wrote:So What's the deal. I have 2012 cabrinha kites, love the kite but find the safety system eally dangerous . Had this happen to me now several times. . I was ending my session and was on the beach alone so I set my kite down and activated the IDS, the kite flipped upsides down and relaunched flying straight above my head upside down Now what to do since I on a small landing area with a powered kite flying upside down and the safety already activated. Seen this happen to plenty of other people also i seen a girl do the same, she activated her IDS in the water the kite flipped upside down pulled her into shore and landed in a tree Another time I had a few twist in my lines and tried activating the IDS. Oops ( warning ) you IDS may not work if you have some twist in your lines. It will not let the IDS line slide because the center line wraps around the IDS line and the It gets stuck.


This has been discussed here before. It is not really a "malfunction" as the kite isnt really powered. Yes it is flying, but it is upside down which is a very neutral position. Was it actually overhead? When it has happened to me it has a little bit of power, but you can pull the center lines to bring it in.

These days when I self land I bring it to the edge of the window and firmly pull the top center line above the split.

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=2365582

Bitt
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Re: Cabrinha IDS malfunction

Postby Bitt » Fri Sep 21, 2012 10:34 am

the kite flipped upsides down and relaunched flying straight above my head upside down Now what to do since I on a small landing area with a powered kite flying upside down and the safety already activated.
It is not really a "malfunction" as the kite isnt really powered.


The way I read it is that the kite has completly reversed itself so that the leading edge curves the opposite way of what it is supposed to (and the struts are facing up instead of down). In that case, it will have power even though the safety has been released. I've experienced a reversal twice with a 2010 convert, typically after a crash where the kite overflies and flaps without power towards the water before suddenly powering up reversed.

However, I've never had this happen when pulling the safety release (which is even worse - I would say a dangerous malfunction). Which kite is this? I guess the failure lies with the design of the kite.

After the first incident, I started pumping my kite quite hard which (I think) should help prevent it in the first place (but it still happened again).

Any tips on how to resolve a reversed kite is greatly appreciated..

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Re: Cabrinha IDS malfunction

Postby pmaggie » Fri Sep 21, 2012 11:01 am

If I pull the safety release of my Core kites (also the 17 that I just sold, now I own a new 15) while standing on the beach, the kite actully files around with no power, it never happened that it reversed. You've got a very small tension on the leash but basically in "normal" winds (10 to 25) it's quite impossible that it's pulling you hard once QRed. After QR, I usually recover the kite pulling both center lines till it comes in my hand. During this operation the kite sometimes it's flying but no power at all. To be sincere, I never tried this in strong winds (more than 25 knots) but I don't think it's very different since in 12 knots I'm pulling a 15, in 30 maybe a 7.
The operation is very quick, since on the beach there's no need to wrap the lines on the bar, I just pull the center lines as quick as I can and grab the kite to secure it.
The only danger is when there are people around, because when it's flying sometimes it's going up and down and I don't have control on this, so the kite may hit someone.

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Re: Cabrinha IDS malfunction

Postby IWB2 » Fri Sep 21, 2012 11:30 am

Jtbird,
If someone is getting pulled after activating the Ids then my first guess is that the user is doing something wrong. I know the xbows tend to roll on their back, where the kite is in the u or smile position, rather than leading edge down, once the Ids is activated. In any case ensure the bar is pushed the entire length of the Ids line. Wrap the ids line on the end of the bar which now trails behind you which is roughly 12ft. If the user did not push the bar away along the full legth of the ids line, eg only half way, then this is where i could see the kite generating a tiny bit of power.
Next step is to then grab all 4 lines and wind on end of bar. If the kite gives a tiny tug when floating on back it is nice to be holding the bar rather a line. I have done hundreds of self lands on the Ids systems in winds ranging from 10 to 40+ knots, since 2009 and have never seen a malfunction.

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Re: Cabrinha IDS malfunction

Postby ronnie » Fri Sep 21, 2012 1:00 pm

jteabird wrote:So What's the deal. I have 2012 cabrinha kites, love the kite but find the safety system eally dangerous . Had this happen to me now several times. . I was ending my session and was on the beach alone so I set my kite down and activated the IDS, the kite flipped upsides down and relaunched flying straight above my head upside down Now what to do since I on a small landing area with a powered kite flying upside down and the safety already activated. Seen this happen to plenty of other people also i seen a girl do the same, she activated her IDS in the water the kite flipped upside down pulled her into shore and landed in a tree Another time I had a few twist in my lines and tried activating the IDS. Oops ( warning ) you IDS may not work if you have some twist in your lines. It will not let the IDS line slide because the center line wraps around the IDS line and the It gets stuck.


I'm a bit confused.
You say the kite was flying upside down straight above your head. Does that mean it was inside out or in the U position?

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Re: Cabrinha IDS malfunction

Postby Kamikuza » Fri Sep 21, 2012 2:13 pm

I've seen this happen to a 15m Naish Cult on a regular basis... new rider, falling over and crashing the kite and the kite rolls onto it's back then flies up into the air in the U position :o doubt he'd pulled the safety though.

Can't be pulling much - just walk down the lines and run it to ground.

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Re: Cabrinha IDS malfunction

Postby IWB2 » Fri Sep 21, 2012 4:11 pm

ronnie wrote:
jteabird wrote:So What's the deal. I have 2012 cabrinha kites, love the kite but find the safety system eally dangerous . Had this happen to me now several times. . I was ending my session and was on the beach alone so I set my kite down and activated the IDS, the kite flipped upsides down and relaunched flying straight above my head upside down Now what to do since I on a small landing area with a powered kite flying upside down and the safety already activated. Seen this happen to plenty of other people also i seen a girl do the same, she activated her IDS in the water the kite flipped upside down pulled her into shore and landed in a tree Another time I had a few twist in my lines and tried activating the IDS. Oops ( warning ) you IDS may not work if you have some twist in your lines. It will not let the IDS line slide because the center line wraps around the IDS line and the It gets stuck.


I'm a bit confused.
You say the kite was flying upside down straight above your head. Does that mean it was inside out or in the U position?


Ronnie,
My interpretation of JTbirds experience was that it was upside down on its back but very high in the sky,. I have seen this from time to time when someone activates the IDS on the Xbow but have never seen the kite on its back directly overhead.

JTbird which Cabrinha kite are you flying,? When you say you had twists on your center lines, care to guess how many? ie 1-5 - 5- 10, 10 -20? The cool thing with the 2012 Cabrinha control system is that you can untwist the center lines by the chickenloop at any time you want. There really is no excuse for having more than 5 twists in the center lines which would would still function without issue. Before i land my kites after each session i ensure the lines are untwisted so that walking the lines out for the next session is quick and easy.

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Re: Cabrinha IDS malfunction

Postby bnthere » Fri Sep 21, 2012 6:45 pm

Bitt wrote:
Any tips on how to resolve a reversed kite is greatly appreciated..



generally an "inside out" kite can be fixed by:

a) while it is leading edge down on the water, swim fast towards the kite or pull in 6 or 7 feet of both centerlines (taking the tension off the two back lines allows the kite to resume its shape.)

or

b) disable kite onto a single centerline (taking all tension off the other 3 lines) usually allows the kite to flip back into normal position. reset leash line and go. this is the best, most hassle free and reliable method.

there's other tricks, pulling an outside line in enough sometimes lets it turn and resume its shape, crashing it as far into the edge of the wind sometimes works. disabling onto single centerline tends to work right away with the least amount of screwing around. its what we teach our students.

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Re: Cabrinha IDS malfunction

Postby tmcfarla » Fri Sep 21, 2012 7:04 pm

If self-landing is the only time this is an issue, the easiest solution is landing from a tether.

For me: landing with an assistant is always best, self-landing with a tether is just as good, landing in the water by releasing bar and winding the lines is only for an emergency. The only time I'll self-land on the beach without a tether is if I'm doing a down-winder.


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