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 Post subject: Re: @ Naish experts: need advice regarding Park!
PostPosted: Fri Sep 21, 2012 11:19 am 
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haiku wrote:
Hi all. First of all I've flown Naish Parks since they were put on the market. Overall I'm very happy with them. I have a question for Tautologies that I personally really appreciate for his competence :thumb: . Speaking about lift and hang time is the Park 2013 better than the previous one? Thanks in advance.
Carlo
:bye:


He he,

Lets see, having very little experience with parks, but some familiarity with Taut I can take a stab at his response!

It will go something like this:

Yes, the 2013 does have slightly better lift and hangtime than the 2012. The kite looks to be just a little bit flatter giving it that center section for better glide. The smaller bridle keeps it a bit more solid and stable both in the air and through the loops. Being that a bit flatter it not only has better hang time, but it points upwind better too.

Hows that? Incidentally the park isn't the sole reason there are so many three strut models out there. The LF envy, that came out a year earlier was and still is a runaway success for its simplicity and versatility.

If you ever need to go on vacation Taut, I'll write your copy for you. My rates are reasonable.


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 Post subject: Re: @ Naish experts: need advice regarding Park!
PostPosted: Fri Sep 21, 2012 7:12 pm 
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Brent4336 wrote:
If you ever need to go on vacation Taut, I'll write your copy for you. My rates are reasonable.

Sweet :thumb:
You managed to copy from above.

I want to add still trying to set up a side by side with last years. :-)


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 Post subject: Re: @ Naish experts: need advice regarding Park!
PostPosted: Fri Sep 21, 2012 7:17 pm 
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Brent4336 wrote:
Hows that? Incidentally the park isn't the sole reason there are so many three strut models out there. The LF envy, that came out a year earlier was and still is a runaway success for its simplicity and versatility.


but the envy has / or at least had a delta outline? Not even comparable to the Park.


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 Post subject: Re: @ Naish experts: need advice regarding Park!
PostPosted: Fri Sep 21, 2012 8:17 pm 
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can't compare the park to the envy!

Now that's a bit rigid! Compact C and beyond delta, totally different? Three strut four line lei kite designs targeted to exactly the same part of the market for exactly the same reasons?

Im all for seeing a pic of the 2012 and 2013 parks layed on top of one another, throw on an 2012 or newer envy and maybe even a new bandit while your at it. The envy was the first with three struts, but the bandit was the first to market with the versatility brief. Incidentally it went three strut in its fourth gen, the same year naish launched the park.

Delta is no more than a marketing term like antistiction or rocket strut....


Last edited by Brent4336 on Fri Sep 21, 2012 8:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: @ Naish experts: need advice regarding Park!
PostPosted: Fri Sep 21, 2012 8:23 pm 
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tautologies wrote:
You managed to copy from above.


No disrespect, but the key part was the "yes" it jumps higher and floats longer than last year!


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 Post subject: Re: @ Naish experts: need advice regarding Park!
PostPosted: Fri Sep 21, 2012 8:43 pm 
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Brent4336 wrote:
can't compare the park to the envy!

Now that's a bit rigid! Compact C and beyond delta, totally different? Three strut four line lei kite designs targeted to exactly the same part of the market for exactly the same reasons?

Im all for seeing a pic of the 2012 and 2013 parks layed on top of one another, throw on an 2012 or newer envy and maybe even a new bandit while your at it. The envy was the first with three struts, but the bandit was the first to market with the versatility brief. Incidentally it went three strut in its fourth gen, the same year naish launched the park.

Delta is no more than a marketing term like antistiction or rocket strut....


Delta has a clear shape difference from for instance the park that inherited its shape from the torch.
I had the bandit II or III, and I think that kite was the opposite of what a park is. The shape is not even related. I have very limited experience with the envy so I'll keep the comments to thing I know something about, but my point is that having three struts is one trait along with many many others, and it seems to me that many of the current three strut kites are inheriting their DNA fromt he parks and not from a delta line of kites.

Obviously the Bandit might have removed their delta dna, in the 4th gen. I saw the (I think 6th gen) recently and it markedlhy less of the delta in it.

So no a clean delta shape is easy to identify and is not a marketing term. And no the park has little that resembles that.


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 Post subject: Re: @ Naish experts: need advice regarding Park!
PostPosted: Fri Sep 21, 2012 8:48 pm 
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Brent4336 wrote:

No disrespect, but the key part was the "yes" it jumps higher and floats longer than last year!


Do you agree that kites are getting better? Some people might need to skip a few years to notice a difference, but if you were to compare an older kite with a newer, do you think the newer is better? If so, do you think it is natural to say that these developments been incremental (with small jumps in them)?

If you agree to that above then why criticize you agree, if not then I am assuming you are riding an older kite because you find it the same as any other kite?

To me kites are very very different. They have good features, and some have bad features. For me as not the best kiter in the world some of the "bad" or incomplete features I only discover when I try something that is better. Sometimes I think oh I wish the kite would do this, but that is also a reflection of my inability to do something for instance on a way.

Also I do not take this stuff personally. I am assuming that we can joke around with eachother, and I definitely know I am at least partially obsessed with Naish gear :-)


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 Post subject: Re: @ Naish experts: need advice regarding Park!
PostPosted: Fri Sep 21, 2012 9:25 pm 
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tautologies wrote:
so I'll keep the comments to thing I know something about,


Nice dig!

tautologies wrote:
So no a clean delta shape is easy to identify and is not a marketing term. And no the park has little that resembles that.


You and I both know quite clearly how to pick out a delta kite from literally a mile away. My point is that the 2012/13 Envy and Bandit both compete directly with the Park and to refer to either of them as deltas is to use the term strictly for marketing purposes. Both have moved on from what the kahoona is still today. Which brings me to your other point. Yes I can see improvement year upon year with only a few exceptions across the market. The last waroo and maybe a fuel or two missed the boat, but really we are all very fortunate, and even the nooby can rest assured that this years is probably better than last year. Hence the intended humor in my original post. The question was so rhetorical even I could answer it for you.

A side by side comparison would show that the Park, Bandit, and Envy are indeed all in the same class of kite. Comparison is more than appropriate its almost necessary. Both the Envy and Bandit made their major departures from the delta outline the very year the park came out, so all three are working from at least a similar vintage of DNA! Besides, isn't kite DNA a North invention?


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 Post subject: Re: @ Naish experts: need advice regarding Park!
PostPosted: Fri Sep 21, 2012 9:40 pm 
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Brent4336 wrote:
tautologies wrote:
so I'll keep the comments to thing I know something about,


Nice dig!

tautologies wrote:
So no a clean delta shape is easy to identify and is not a marketing term. And no the park has little that resembles that.


You and I both know quite clearly how to pick out a delta kite from literally a mile away. My point is that the 2012/13 Envy and Bandit both compete directly with the Park and to refer to either of them as deltas is to use the term strictly for marketing purposes. Both have moved on from what the kahoona is still today. Which brings me to your other point. Yes I can see improvement year upon year with only a few exceptions across the market. The last waroo and maybe a fuel or two missed the boat, but really we are all very fortunate, and even the nooby can rest assured that this years is probably better than last year. Hence the intended humor in my original post. The question was so rhetorical even I could answer it for you.

A side by side comparison would show that the Park, Bandit, and Envy are indeed all in the same class of kite. Comparison is more than appropriate its almost necessary. Both the Envy and Bandit made their major departures from the delta outline the very year the park came out, so all three are working from at least a similar vintage of DNA! Besides, isn't kite DNA a North invention?


Ok well that is cleared up then. I think we mostly agree. I do think the outline of the initial park came from the Torch, so I guess they all have neared some kind of middle ground perhaps? It would be super fun to test all these kites side by side.
:-)


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 Post subject: Re: @ Naish experts: need advice regarding Park!
PostPosted: Sat Sep 22, 2012 2:38 am 
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I have not seen a 2013 Park. But when I layed my 2012 8m over top of my 2011 9m Park, they appeared to me to be the same kite, sans the anti stiction thingy and the extra connection point on the bridal. I still have no complaints and was under no illusion that any real changes were made before I purchased. I love the Parks and will probably buy some more next year. Except I buy left overs in late summer just as the new models come out. Guaranteed 25% savings and a years worth of reviews.


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