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 Post subject: Re: Oh shit release
PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2012 7:40 pm 
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Keep kiting and you will become a fan when you have a safety fail in front of whatever other dangerous obstacle presents itself, be it a a seawall, busy channel, reef, big waves, cactuses, roadway, etc.
Having that option between primary safety and ditching the whole rig will save you from major problems and expense.
Or you can just ride in perfect 14mph sideshore warm knee-deep water "school conditions" with a rescue boat and you might never need it. Or any other safety.


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 Post subject: Re: Oh shit release
PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2012 8:05 pm 
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Yeah, they're nice to have. Slingshot still puts them on their kites.

I have to say, though, I think folks who came to the sport after C kites probably don't even know what they are. So, that, cost, and designs which don't allow a slide through rear line probably contribute to their disappearance.

For instance, can't use it on any pully bars. Can't use it on any kites that allow the option of adjusting line lengths at the bar, or disconnected a line at the bar. And whatever other bar concoction gets designed...


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 Post subject: Re: Oh shit release
PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2012 8:50 pm 
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Sure you could adjust lengths at the bar and still have OS rings, just make the part below the OS the adjustable part.... Haven't done it yet but thinking of doing this to my ozone bar that has adjustability but no OS.
Naturally if you mod a bar, you want to make sure the kite/bridle in question reacts well to it before emergency use.


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 Post subject: Re: Oh shit release
PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2012 9:08 pm 
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BWD wrote:
Sure you could adjust lengths at the bar and still have OS rings, just make the part below the OS the adjustable part.... Haven't done it yet but thinking of doing this to my ozone bar that has adjustability but no OS.
Naturally if you mod a bar, you want to make sure the kite/bridle in question reacts well to it before emergency use.


The Epic bar has adjustable rear line length and adjustable bar length. The rear line adjustment knots are several feet up the rear lines:
http://epickites.com/products/xtend_bar.php


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 Post subject: Re: Oh shit release
PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2012 9:16 pm 
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My 2 cents:
OS handles are needed if your bar has a mini-5th line. If the wind picks up quickly and you need to self land, you need a way to be sure you're not going to get lofted on land.

If you have a full fifth line though, I don't think you need it. I don't think the single rear line is any better than the single fifth line. What's the benefit of an OS handle over a fifth line? They both would get tangled just as quickly from a kite looping multiple times.

For a single front line safety, not sure if you need it or not. If I was on a 12m, and a front comes through. Wind suddenly picks up to 35 knots and I need to self land, I'd trust the OS handle on the rear line much more than the line through the bar to the single front line.

CaptainArgh wrote:
I think folks who came to the sport after C kites probably don't even know what they are.


Good point. I see a lot of new riders suicide leashing. My old C-kites scared the hell out of me when I was learning, so I don't suicide leash much, and if I do I wait until I'm away from the beach. A lot of new kiters feel a little too safe, because the new kites are incredibly safe 99.9% of the time.


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 Post subject: Re: Oh shit release
PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2012 9:51 pm 
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Quote:
OS handles are needed if your bar has a mini-5th line. If the wind picks up quickly and you need to self land, you need a way to be sure you're not going to get lofted on land.

True.
Quote:
If you have a full fifth line though, I don't think you need it.

Ever had a 5th line jam or break? What's your backup plan then? Ditch the kite? I prefer other options. Like if the kite rolls and 5th wraps it, release the 5th and switch leash to OSH, ride to beach with some safety...

Quote:
I don't think the single rear line is any better than the single fifth line.

OSH is not better than 5th or mini-5th, it's a smart backup.
If you have used both, you know, mini-5th or 5th is more convenient, faster to reboot, and more controlled. OSH is usually just a backup system.
Quote:
What's the benefit of an OS handle over a fifth line?They both would get tangled just as quickly from a kite looping multiple times.

Maybe, but at least the outside line is outside the twist, while fronts and fifth are locked in the middle.
If you let a kite spiral too many times, you are going to have to let it go regardless of the safety system.
This will tend to happen when there is a bridle failure at the kite.
If the problem is at the bar end, or with a 5th line, going to the OSH can help by slowing if not stopping the loops so the kite will crash and stabilize on the water.
Kites trying to loop around the outside lines make bigger loops and usually crash quickly with less relaunch risk.
Even if the kite keeps trying to kill you, crashing it with the OSH may buy a few seconds to breathe and release your leash.
Best strategy is to pull the safety before deathlooping starts, and switch to OSH backup before the kite makes multiple loops. Too many loops = best to ditch it all.


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 Post subject: Re: Oh shit release
PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2012 10:57 pm 
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davesails7 wrote:
I'd trust the OS handle on the rear line much more than the line through the bar to the single front line.



really?

i would argue that single center line (5th line included) is more effective than a single outside line at disabling any kite, while also being far easier to recover and re-ride after using.

many canopy shapes and bridle configurations (a vast majority from what i have experienced) flip and twist horribly when disabled onto an outside line, especially in high wind.


massive line twist that could potentially bind lines and prevent a kite from disabling should not exist, it should be dealt with before it develops, and therefore not be an issue. if you were dumb enough to let your kite loop 15 times before disabling it, or never stopped to undo twists while you were riding, then that is rider error.

if for some reason your kite does not disable when the bar is released onto the leash line, that is why we can release the leash as well.

i do agree however, that multiple single line attachment points are potentially an advantage, however being able to effectively use them in a "situation" i believe is pretty unlikely.


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 Post subject: Re: Oh shit release
PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2012 4:19 am 
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Having had C kites with OS handles I would call them useless. In any sort of emergency situation the handle gets ripped out of your hand, causing a fair bit of pain in the process.

Most modern kites have two levels of depower (1 push out the bar. 2 release to leash) before you have to fully release everything.

Having a third method is overkill and pointless. If your first two methods are not enough then going for the dodgey plan of having your fingers inside a loop adds complication and risk to an already dangerous situation.

As the man says
BWD wrote:
...Too many loops = best to ditch it all.


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 Post subject: Re: Oh shit release
PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2012 7:46 am 
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Are you mad?

Mini 5th lines are not a FULL flag out safety system. They are the equivalent of riding suicide and relying on the inherent depower of the kite to save you. Any problems such as bridle wraps and a death looping kite and the mini 5th line is USELESS, if not dangerous.

O shit handle provides a flag out system which will render the kite depowered in the event of an emergency.

O shits aren't infallible an do have their issues but are better than relying solely on the mini 5th lines.

Quote:
Most modern kites have two levels of depower (1 push out the bar. 2 release to leash) before you have to fully release everything.


Same thing


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 Post subject: Re: Oh shit release
PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2012 8:20 am 
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In my opinion, the point is the OS don't harm in any way, so what's the problem? Just put it on every bar as an additional safety option, that's all. I suspect the correct answer to the quetion is they are expensive...


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