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 Post subject: Re: Are lightwind boards $1000+ now...really??
PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2012 6:56 pm 
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Location: NW / SW USA Liquid Force Rep
The Liquid Force Kitefish is an amazingly fun lightwind board! Different than a race design, meant to be super fun, super effecient and super affordable!!

Only $349 with straps @ retail, but can be found now for $300!!
http://www.kitepaddlesurf.com/Liquid-Fo ... egoryId=-1

Check it out!


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 Post subject: Re: Are lightwind boards $1000+ now...really??
PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2012 7:05 pm 
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sckitesurf wrote:
As Tautologies pointed out you are paying for the R&D costs. In the case of Firewire they integrate the latest build technology and leverage 35 years of true surf shaping experience for some of the top surfers in the world. Their site shows $785 for the baords.


I think that is for the surfboards right? Either way you still have to add fins and pads and a bag. So most comes to the same price.

Tongs of companies have cheaper alternatives. Naish has the Alaia which is 275 or something like that...LF has the skimfish, I've seen some other boards too...

If the price is a problem then get a used board or don't buy....but stop moaning about it. The price is reflected in cost to make.


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 Post subject: Re: Are lightwind boards $1000+ now...really??
PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2012 9:22 pm 
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Last edited by Oldnbroken on Tue Apr 02, 2013 9:15 am, edited 3 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Are lightwind boards $1000+ now...really??
PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2012 11:13 pm 
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Location: Kettle Point Ontario Canada
Oldnbroken you are right on the noise.. There is really no reason for those light wind boards to be that high. They are all made in a factory where the people make next to nothing per week and are pretty much punch and pop boards. All cores CNC / not hand shaped. Big ass presses that do 3-5 boards in one pop.

It all comes to supply and demand. If we will pay it they will sell it.

When it comes to custom stuff we have no CNC to do the cores, no big ass presses to do a bunch of boards at once. Hell I have priced boards TT from over sea to see how much they charge and I just scratch my head trying to figure out how they make any money .

We have a one board press for TT and snowboards. So one board at a time. If everything is ready to put in the press we can make 2 boards a day if we want to bust our asses. And if the orders were there. . Shop is closed on windy days. We have to kite to .. Surf board are all hand layed from EPS to corecell to shaping to painting them by hand. So the cost of a custom is alittle higher .

just my thoughts.
Terrie


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 Post subject: Re: Are lightwind boards $1000+ now...really??
PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2012 2:15 am 
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tautologies wrote:
If you have the knowledge, please address what is different in materials in a production surfboard from Slingshot/Best/Epic/Firewire etc, from a Sector 54/RRD K60 or the Nugget production surfboard, which doesn't even pretend to be a course racing type board and is still a thousand bucks.


Everywhere I can find, the Nugget costs less than or the same amount as all the other North kite surf boards. Makes sense because it's a small surfboard

As for the raceboards, I'd imagine integrating those highly loaded fin boxes into the structure of the board must be harder than on a surfboard.

After a quick internet search, the fin boxes alone are much more expensive. Obviously not an exhaustive search, but this website sells future fin boxes (surfboards) for about $6 and tuttle boxes (raceboard) for over $60. 3 tuttle fin boxes per board.
http://www.fiberglasssupply.com/Product_Catalog/SurfSailcom/surfsailcom.html

Have you seen all of the issues with the 2012 raceboards? Apparently it's not very easy to make a raceboard that can handle all the load from the fins and not leak like crazy. Apparently there is only one factory that can handle it (Cobra factory)?


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 Post subject: Re: Are lightwind boards $1000+ now...really??
PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2012 3:00 am 
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My light wind board costs $275 with board bag and fins, purchased slightly used. It is a proven shape with much more RD than most boards mentioned. I've ridden it heavily in the last year and it's still solid. Why anyone would pay $1000 for a heavy directional is beyond me. Especially since there are so many light wind boards(epoxy surfboards) on Craigslist for much less.


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 Post subject: Re: Are lightwind boards $1000+ now...really??
PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2012 5:17 am 
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Last edited by Oldnbroken on Tue Apr 02, 2013 9:16 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Are lightwind boards $1000+ now...really??
PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2012 6:36 am 
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Race boards are GAY


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 Post subject: Re: Are lightwind boards $1000+ now...really??
PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2012 6:55 am 
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Oldnbroken wrote:
Hey Taut-
I asked a question, would be happy to hear logical answers, with reasonable facts to back it up.
I don't think the cost of these boards is reflected accurately in their sale price.
If you don't want "moaning" .....you know how not to click the button on the mouse, right? :wink:
So.....no...not the "same as any board".

You do not think? Why is that?

Quote:
I don't think your tired answer is a good one, and the Firewire post above illustrates the point.
You sound like the "designated defender of high prices superhero" yet again.

Whatever. All board are more or less the same price. If you want cheap get a costco board.
Quote:
Just whip out your, cost of manufacturing / cost of R&D / cost of limited run size, reason every time anybody says anything kite related is too expensive.


It is because it is econ 101. If you think I am wrong you have ahuge market opprtunity. Do it. I would love to be able to buy those board for imaginary prices.
Quote:
The CAD time and prototyping for a production directional kiteboard cannot be compared to the cost to develop something even as mundane as an electric can opener, so I don't buy your development cost argument.

Right, but again if you produce 10 000 0000 of something that RD cost is split many more ways than a production run of 100-200 boards (yeah I don;t know how many board brands make).

You ask me for data yet provide none of your own. I think you make the claim,

Quote:
I believe that takes one CAD savvy board shaper, three test riders who want to test boards in their free time, and the cost to make and finish prototypes, possibly by hand if they can't pull it off with their normal CNC production equipment.


So you ask people to work on a board for you for free. I bet you would do that same with your job? Not.
Quote:
The Sector was designed several years ago and is in V3 production status, it is not constructed significantly differently from a Slingshot Celeritas, a very popular production kite surfboard that is priced in the normal median for production kite surfboards at around $750.


I think this shows a lack of understanding how the subtle differences on boards make a huge difference on the water.

Quote:
You may be talking about exotics, this thread is not, we're talking about overpriced (IMO) production lightwind specific directionals.

You provide NO data on how it is over priced. Sure it is expensive. But over priced?? That claim you need to prove before you ask anyone else for data.

Quote:
If you have the knowledge, please address what is different in materials in a production surfboard from Slingshot/Best/Epic/Firewire etc, from a Sector 54/RRD K60 or the Nugget production surfboard, which doesn't even pretend to be a course racing type board and is still a thousand bucks.


I will bet you that cost lies in the RD. How makes the boards? How are they designed. I will bet a lot that the more expesive brands have a mucvh better developed process for getting great products. But hey I might be wrong. I did check some different brands in SUP expensive vs cheaper. On those the overall board was HUGELY different. I think for kiting it might be less obvious, but still present.
Quote:

I believe the prices being asked, has to do with the price history of (one off custom) course racing directional kiteboards.


..and I disagree.

Quote:
That is what I think is going on, and I'm asking if there is evidence that this is not the case.
Taut, I reject your argument and think my hunch is closer to the truth.

LOL., you reject based on a notion that you made up in your head, and then ask for someone else to prove you are wrong? That is tantamount to a religious fanatic. The burden of proof is on you buddy.

Quote:
But would like to hear more from anybody who has some really sound reasoning that my hunch is incorrect.


Look, the easy way to see if you are wrong or not is to look at comparable markets. In this case the easy route goes to surfing. Now surfing is a sport that has about 1000 times as many participants as kiteboarding, which is pretty huge. The material you put in a surfboard are similar, but maybe less of it ie their boards are lighter and more fragile.
Compare the naish board with this for instance: Takayama 7'2" Egg Gray LB6 Cool Gray TuflitePrice: $900.00 (comparing because Takayama makes good boards, but since it is a surfboard a 7+ board will more comparable to a light wind board in volume.

On the Naish you get High quality fins. For the surftech those are at least $100 extra because they supply their boards with plastic shitfins. Add the properly contoured pads: About $55. Add footstraps: $50, Add a day bag: $80...now what you also get on the Naish boards, is a layer of pvc, then an extra layer of glass, then a layer of bamboo...the surftech would cost you about 1200 with wood.
I restate my claim they are not over priced. They are expensive, but not over priced...but hey that is the sport you chose to participate in.


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 Post subject: Re: Are lightwind boards $1000+ now...really??
PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2012 6:56 am 
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mdmaui wrote:
Race boards are GAY


:lol: :lol: :thumb: :thumb:


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