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 Post subject: Re: Oh shit release
PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2012 10:33 am 
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Coming from Best to F-One this is the thing I will miss most on my new kites. I always liked having this feature. If you see something coming you could always attach your leash to an OSR and let it pass and if it goes wrong release on 1 rear line and be sure it would kill all the power.


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 Post subject: Re: Oh shit release
PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2012 10:38 am 
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If you pop your Q/R and find you are still in the shit, with the O/S you then have to get back to the bar to get to the O/S.

So do you have the time to figure out that the O/S is the best option before popping the Q/R?


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 Post subject: Re: Oh shit release
PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2012 2:50 pm 
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OSH is no panacea but the typical scenario is you release the CL or unhook and throw it -and the bar does not shoot away from you because the safety line or 5th line is jammed or stuck in some piece of hardware (e.g.: swivel, cleat).
In this scenario, you grab the OSH which is still right there by you.
It usually works.
If you let the lines wrap many times and nothing moves, you have already doomed yourself, likewise if you have "just a few" wraps and the bar moves up the safety but jams before it can kill the kite.


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 Post subject: Re: Oh shit release
PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2012 3:05 pm 
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BWD wrote:
OSH is no panacea but the typical scenario is you release the CL or unhook and throw it -and the bar does not shoot away from you because the safety line or 5th line is jammed or stuck in some piece of hardware (e.g.: swivel, cleat).
In this scenario, you grab the OSH which is still right there by you.


How can you read the OS handle if your bar is at the end of your 3 foot leash?

ronnie wrote:
So do you have the time to figure out that the O/S is the best option before popping the Q/R?


The times I've used it was when wind picked up suddenly and I had to self land. I changed my leash over to the OS handle while I was on the water and then came ashore and pulled the release.

I can't see the situation where your primary flagging line (mini fifth, 5ht line...) fails and you try again with the OS handle. If you have an emergency, say kite looping due to stuck bridal, and then your primary system fails, there's no way you're climbing up the leash to grab an OS handle as your kite loops through the power zone!

Still a good to have a backup option though if you have time to change your leash over ahead of time.


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 Post subject: Re: Oh shit release
PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2012 3:29 pm 
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If you're leash is attached to the oh shit then when u pull your release it goes straight to being flagged out, and there are situations where you're primary wont work and an I shit will such as an inverted kite, a broken line or if you need to do a pack down.


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 Post subject: Re: Oh shit release
PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2012 4:37 pm 
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Bill wrote:
I was out by myself the other day and it was pretty windy. Really did not know how I was gonna land the kite, but fortunately there was a windsurfer there who landed the kite for me.


You don't have the tethered launch/landing perfected yet or did you end up on some other part of the beach and couldn't get to it? Just curious as a lot of folks use the tethered solo launch/land technique fairly regularly for SLE kites.

But yeah I think having at least one oshit is not a bad idea. And the velcro does wear out and in some cases the strap to bulky in a way. I've got two on my bar and the velcro is wearing out and they sometimes come out of position. Have to keep an eye on em but they're better than nothing I find psychologically as I've never had to use one yet knock on wood (taps head again).

Two days ago a friend of mine used his to save his ass according to him and he's using the latest and greatest stuff.

A good bar should probably have at least one IMO.


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 Post subject: Re: Oh shit release
PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2012 5:02 pm 
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Quote:
How can you read the OS handle if your bar is at the end of your 3 foot leash?
Hand over hand. :strong:
Quote:
there's no way you're climbing up the leash to grab an OS handle as your kite loops through the power zone!

no you have to wait until it crashes, unless it is light wind. If light wind, you actually CAN, if properly motivated. If the conditions are tough, and the kite is in the death spiral, you are probably going to have to let it go..
Another of the many reasons to have an OSH is in case your safety line breaks, obviously.
Typically this will send a kite wildly across the power zone into a crash, from which it may or may not relaunch totally out of shape and out of control. Guess what: if you then grab the OSH, it won't relaunch and drag you!!
Lots of other possibilities too.
If you don't see the point of OSH yet, its worth your time to experiment with one and see how it can be useful, and how it might help with your kite in your conditions.
OSH doesn't suit every kite and situation all the time, but there is a reason they are still made: redundancy.
Redundancy may be boring and inelegant, but not in safety systems.
Example: in airplanes, it's possible to link the rudder to the stick so you might never need the pedals. Yet it's still a good idea for the pedals to be there.
Likewise, your car's brakes and steering could be made so they only worked with power assist, or only worked when there were no leaks and had the proper voltage to various sensors. Perhaps that would be lighter, cheaper, simpler or more elegant.
But it might also kill you. :idea:


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 Post subject: Re: Oh shit release
PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2012 7:00 pm 
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BWD wrote:
Quote:
How can you read the OS handle if your bar is at the end of your 3 foot leash?
Hand over hand. :strong:
Quote:
there's no way you're climbing up the leash to grab an OS handle as your kite loops through the power zone!

no you have to wait until it crashes, unless it is light wind. If light wind, you actually CAN, if properly motivated. If the conditions are tough, and the kite is in the death spiral, you are probably going to have to let it go..
Another of the many reasons to have an OSH is in case your safety line breaks, obviously.
Typically this will send a kite wildly across the power zone into a crash, from which it may or may not relaunch totally out of shape and out of control. Guess what: if you then grab the OSH, it won't relaunch and drag you!!
Lots of other possibilities too.
If you don't see the point of OSH yet, its worth your time to experiment with one and see how it can be useful, and how it might help with your kite in your conditions.
OSH doesn't suit every kite and situation all the time, but there is a reason they are still made: redundancy.
Redundancy may be boring and inelegant, but not in safety systems.
Example: in airplanes, it's possible to link the rudder to the stick so you might never need the pedals. Yet it's still a good idea for the pedals to be there.
Likewise, your car's brakes and steering could be made so they only worked with power assist, or only worked when there were no leaks and had the proper voltage to various sensors. Perhaps that would be lighter, cheaper, simpler or more elegant.
But it might also kill you. :idea:


Totally Agree.

My Best Bar has a mini 5th. When one of my front lines broke the other day the kite did lose power but also twisted and started to loop. I was lucky enough to be in only waist deep water but the kite was definitely pulling me. I simply grabbed one of the OSRs, used the CL QR and the leash QR. No more pull. Simply walked hand over hand to my kite and walked the whole mess in. If I were in deep water without the OSR I would have been pulled quite a ways and eventually would have had to ditch my whole kite which is something I hesitate to do especially when there are people downwind of me.

Now Best came out with a rig that is connects to only one front line. Probably safer but what if thats the front line that breaks?

I see no downside whatsover to having OSR's on a bar.


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 Post subject: Re: Oh shit release
PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2012 7:52 pm 
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vkngktr wrote:
My Best Bar has a mini 5th. When one of my front lines broke the other day the kite did lose power but also twisted and started to loop. I was lucky enough to be in only waist deep water but the kite was definitely pulling me. I simply grabbed one of the OSRs, used the CL QR and the leash QR. No more pull. Simply walked hand over hand to my kite and walked the whole mess in. If I were in deep water without the OSR I would have been pulled quite a ways and eventually would have had to ditch my whole kite which is something I hesitate to do especially when there are people downwind of me.


Having a broken front line doesn't stop a mini-fifth from working. It makes it work better! If you break a front line then you are essentially releasing to a single front line right? Unless the mini fifth isn't long enough to pull only on one fornt line?

BWD wrote:
Another of the many reasons to have an OSH is in case your safety line breaks, obviously.


The only time I can see a mini-fifth line breaking is when you release to the mini-fifth line. If it breaks after you've released to it, then your kite is gone anyway. I guess when you are running down the beach and you catch up to the bar you can grab the OS handle though?


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 Post subject: Re: Oh shit release
PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2012 8:14 pm 
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JGTR wrote:
Are you mad?

Mini 5th lines are not a FULL flag out safety system. They are the equivalent of riding suicide and relying on the inherent depower of the kite to save you. Any problems such as bridle wraps and a death looping kite and the mini 5th line is USELESS, if not dangerous.


No they're not, mini 5th in almost all cases flags to one center line and depowers 100%. If it doesn't then you need to untwist your center lines (or get a better swivel).


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