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 Post subject: Re: self landing with stake
PostPosted: Sat Sep 29, 2012 7:08 pm 
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SupaEZ taught me this trick. It works great!! Even if by a fluke the kite moves just keep hold of the DREADED 5th line and you can walk wright up to the kite.


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 Post subject: Re: self landing with stake
PostPosted: Sat Sep 29, 2012 9:42 pm 
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frankm1960 wrote:
SupaEZ wrote:
I am in a way the stake...as i walk up the middle centerline up to the "Y" and yank on top line & 5th



Why don't you post a video of that sometime for us... 20kt day would be good enough.
I have a 5line kite too and would like to develop another technique to what I'm currently using.
I don't have a Y in my front lines... both my front lines connect to my swivel above the bar so maybe your technique won't work for me but I'd be interested in seeing it anyway. When ya get a chance :)


That is why i switched 3 years ago to the Rebel line design

I depower kite totally to land..set it down on wingtip at edge of wind....let go of the bar totally all out
Stay in chicken loop...stay leashed..reach over the depower cleat...grab on to thicker centerline
I always feel safe walking up to my kite using the thicker white center line that is 12 meter long

Also my Core XR2 19 that has a 4 meter long (mini 5th) thicker centerline (I self land it in 18 knots)
On that kite when i reach the low "Y" i just yank on the top line and that big kite falls LE down EZ

With your no "Y" and front lines that are separated all the way down to swivel my method is not safe
Grabbing on thin front lines and walking up towards a kite can be quite dangerous :nono:

As far as a video i am terribly sorry....i guess you have to picture how i do it in your mind
The type of kite i use is primarily the secret here

The Rebel is very stable on its wingtip at the edge of window totally depowered when walking up
It just waits for your command when you reach the "Y" ..pull at same time top line and 5th line
The Rebel will just fall LE down naturally & EZ ... sticking to the ground / beach totally secure

To land i have never had to hit my QR's in 3 years..but it is very nice to know i have that final option

.......................... :surf: :sun: ...............................................................................................


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 Post subject: Re: self landing with stake
PostPosted: Sun Sep 30, 2012 12:06 am 
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What about launching this way?

Lay lines out in a loop, hook in, stand kite up and walk back to Y, then down front line until back to the bar???

Make sure you are connected to 5th line by leash, if anything happens just let go and kite will leash out (hopefully!!)


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 Post subject: Re: self landing with stake
PostPosted: Sun Sep 30, 2012 4:33 am 
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SupaEZ wrote:
frankm1960 wrote:
SupaEZ wrote:
I am in a way the stake...as i walk up the middle centerline up to the "Y" and yank on top line & 5th



Why don't you post a video of that sometime for us... 20kt day would be good enough.
I have a 5line kite too and would like to develop another technique to what I'm currently using.
I don't have a Y in my front lines... both my front lines connect to my swivel above the bar so maybe your technique won't work for me but I'd be interested in seeing it anyway. When ya get a chance :)


That is why i switched 3 years ago to the Rebel line design

I depower kite totally to land..set it down on wingtip at edge of wind....let go of the bar totally all out
Stay in chicken loop...stay leashed..reach over the depower cleat...grab on to thicker centerline
I always feel safe walking up to my kite using the thicker white center line that is 12 meter long

Also my Core XR2 19 that has a 4 meter long (mini 5th) thicker centerline (I self land it in 18 knots)
On that kite when i reach the low "Y" i just yank on the top line and that big kite falls LE down EZ

With your no "Y" and front lines that are separated all the way down to swivel my method is not safe
Grabbing on thin front lines and walking up towards a kite can be quite dangerous :nono:

As far as a video i am terribly sorry....i guess you have to picture how i do it in your mind
The type of kite i use is primarily the secret here

The Rebel is very stable on its wingtip at the edge of window totally depowered when walking up
It just waits for your command when you reach the "Y" ..pull at same time top line and 5th line
The Rebel will just fall LE down naturally & EZ ... sticking to the ground / beach totally secure

To land i have never had to hit my QR's in 3 years..but it is very nice to know i have that final option

.......................... :surf: :sun: ...............................................................................................



If you just fly to the edge of the window and pop your safety to the 5th the rebel will flop leading edge down in the wind no need to walk any lines....


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 Post subject: Re: self landing with stake
PostPosted: Sun Sep 30, 2012 8:41 am 
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Those methods dont work for regular landings on tough coasts IMO :(

Releasing to the 5th is way too dramatical and not very predictable in high winds on rugged coastlines (and typically windsurfer fins on the beach straight up if not alone) - and releasing to a rear/front flag out line is the last of all that can be used at such places of course :o

And walking all the way up to the kite holding 1mm thin lines ?

No way I would do that at every single landing - it works yes, and we do it if stuck somewhere with no other alternative but that (or releasing to the safety), but it is way too hazardous holding these thin lines with your bare hands in so much wind at EVERY landing IMO.

Putting the kite LE down by tugging a frontline is a no-no at such tough surfaces, and you will most likely ruin your kite (or get a finger cut some day...)
Remember, we are talking high winds and rough coast where the kite can not lay on the beach without flying/sliding away - and you might also easily puncture your kite doing this, because of sharp rocks/shells/timber on the shore :cry:

If it were a sandy beach it is easy of course - but with sharp rocks or even small "not sharp" stones on the beach - the kite will get cut, or slide away and turn around immediately - it will not stay put for even 1 second as it is soooo low friction in the last case :roll:

The other thing is, it takes longer to "crawl" to your kite (or "Y") holding the thin lines, than just putting the kite on the stake and then walk or run or whatever you like, to your kite, to secure it on the beach with your board or find some soft rocks - or even better - move it away from the rocks to some place more safe :thumb:


The other thing is - most of us want to go out again - and you can not self launch without the stake, in such places - so even if you succeded getting the kite down by a front line tug, without destroying it or have it slide and fly away - you can not launch by yourself again :x


Of course there is always a small risk to get a puncture at such spots, even when the kite sits on its edge - but it is minimal and happens so rare - compared to all other self land methods.


So the stake method is one of the most used, as it works almost everywhere.

But I agree, that learning ALL methods and using the right one where it fits, is by far the best option, true 8)

Sometimes NONE of the self launch methods works very good really - and it is very risky - but one usually finds a way and take a chance (it is only your kite and not you) and succeed finally.

:D Peter


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 Post subject: Re: self landing with stake
PostPosted: Sun Sep 30, 2012 9:57 am 
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Quote:
Releasing to the 5th is way too dramatical and not very predictable in high winds on rugged coastlines (and typically windsurfer fins on the beach straight up if not alone) - and releasing to a rear/front flag out line is the last of all that can be used at such places of course


I take it you've never flown a 5 line kite then? Releasing to the 5th is not dramatic at all, I use this method all the time when on holiday to self land on busy beaches. Its the only method i know of where you don't need masses of space! Kite at 12, pull release, then just pull in 5th line while walking to kite. Kite doesn't even touch the ground, just comes straight to me. Walk the lines back out and roll them up, what's dramatic about that?


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 Post subject: Re: self landing with stake
PostPosted: Sun Sep 30, 2012 10:34 am 
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Location: Denmark
JGTR wrote:
Quote:
Releasing to the 5th is way too dramatical and not very predictable in high winds on rugged coastlines (and typically windsurfer fins on the beach straight up if not alone) - and releasing to a rear/front flag out line is the last of all that can be used at such places of course


I take it you've never flown a 5 line kite then? Releasing to the 5th is not dramatic at all, I use this method all the time when on holiday to self land on busy beaches. Its the only method i know of where you don't need masses of space! Kite at 12, pull release, then just pull in 5th line while walking to kite. Kite doesn't even touch the ground, just comes straight to me. Walk the lines back out and roll them up, what's dramatic about that?


The "drama" is - IF it touches the ground, the windsurf fins and rocks might cut the kite :o

And some kites can "float" stable yes, on the 5th, others can not...

Besides, it takes way too long to do it this way IMO, almost like a release :x - what a hazzle and why do it when the easy faster method is normally available ?
And how do you launch the kite again ??? (not possible to do a reverse 5th launch...)

Apart from that - hardly anyone use 5 lines here in waves - where the "rough" coastlines usually are 8)

Have flown many 5 line kites - but not anymore because of waves :-?

But you are right - if you ONLY have to self land (not start again), and you have a 5th line kite that floats "stable" - then this is by far the method that can be done requiring the least space :thumb:
Actually you can do it without any space at all - just find a spot where you can stand and reel the kite down :naughty:

:D Peter


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 Post subject: Re: self landing with stake
PostPosted: Sun Sep 30, 2012 1:45 pm 
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Peter_Frank wrote:

And walking all the way up to the kite holding 1mm thin lines ?

The other thing is, it takes longer to "crawl" to your kite (or "Y") holding the thin lines, than just putting the kite on the stake and then walk or run or whatever you like, to your kite, to secure it on the beach with your board


I would NEVER and have never walked up to any kites holding 1mm lines

Sorry but it does not take longer for me to get to the "Y"...because i do not crawl as you say

The center thick white line is "3mm" and 12meter long...very EZ to hold on to

No wasted time "detaching myself from chicken loop and leash and attaching to ground stake"

I can get my kite LE down and be at my kite from the time the wingtip is on ground.....

...In about 10 seconds......and the Rebel secures ITSELF no need to weigh it down when LE down

By design the Rebel is 99% depowered on wingtip...kinda folds on itself...exposing only 1/2 area

I personally do not hit the QR on the 5th to land...when on wingtip..i do not trust it as much

................. :surf: :sun: ... :D to each his own method....no room for MISS stakes :thumb:


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 Post subject: Re: self landing with stake
PostPosted: Sun Sep 30, 2012 2:53 pm 
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+5th for what SupaEZ says.


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 Post subject: Re: self landing with stake
PostPosted: Sun Sep 30, 2012 9:59 pm 
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SupaEZ....

So when you walk up the strong line do you have to take care to keep very even tension on the line so the kite doesn't get pulled towards you?

I saw a guy landing another (non 5th) kite with a high Y one day the way you mentioned, the kite always looked to be just luffing and like it was about to fall on it's back but it didn't and worked fine.

I've always just landed by letting the kite settle on it's wingtip with the bar out and then aggressively pull 3 or 4 arms lengths of 5th. In low to medium winds it lands perfectly right where it is. In higher winds (20kts +) it still works fine but usually ends up 10m downwind as the kite will catch some air before it land in the beach position.


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