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 Post subject: Re: Strutless kite in development on Maui
PostPosted: Sat Oct 06, 2012 7:41 pm 
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Location: Tarifa / Got 2 Ovandos and a Ripper
boardriding maui wrote:
.
[/quote] please , please sell me a kite ... No need for a bar ( got plenty of them ) just the kite ...a 9 m would be nice .

I promise you I will treat it well , I just find your kite irresistible... I need to have it !!!!

Pleaseeeeee ( I won't tell anyone )


Saludos from Spain :thumb:


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 Post subject: Re: Strutless kite in development on Maui
PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 10:25 pm 
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To further address some of the questions on relaunch, stability and power, I've posted another video to the boardriding maui youtube channel and facebook page. Thanks.


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 Post subject: Re: Strutless kite in development on Maui
PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2012 6:04 am 
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Location: Save a life...adopt a Pitbull
You guys look like you are having fun on the Paipo/Alaia board.
I found a couple sets of Alaia plans for size/shape, seems like there are a lot of those around.
Any plans available for the board in your video?


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 Post subject: Re: Strutless kite in development on Maui
PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2012 10:45 am 
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That new video showing the relaunch and the luffing.



The luffing of the centre of the kite is interesting and the sides remain taut so the steering is still there.
Bruno made a flat bow kite in 2006 with straight inflated struts which were joined to the canopy by a web of cloth which had an aerofoil profile where it was sewn to the canopy. You can see the canopy luffs right in the centre, unaffected by the centre strut.

http://www.inflatablekite.com/sitebow/f ... W_kite.wmv


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 Post subject: Re: Strutless kite in development on Maui
PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2012 12:17 pm 
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Looks awesome. Love the idea of less weight and more flexibility. I like my kites to sort of twist and squirt instead of being rigid, if that makes any sense. Thanks for sharing what you're working on.


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 Post subject: Re: Strutless kite in development on Maui
PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2012 5:52 pm 
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Location: Miami @ 6" Flat Butter!
boardriding maui wrote:
Crazy fast and responsive.
Need a new word for drift, because this design is unlike any other in that regard.
Drifts back as fast as I can tear toward it, the whole time still with the lines engaged.
I've never once had to carve upwind to put tension back in the lines. That's all the good news.
Relaunch is awesome in every flatwater setting I've experienced, except where there's no wind.
Reverse relauNch is sick.
Congratulation thinking outside of the box and developing it further to bring it to the world,
hopefully marketing it before the the big brand would take up on it :clap:
I also like it without the graphics and the passion behind not afraid of doing something different.
If the bar pressure is light and the relaunch in light wind that's all good.
I didn't see the reverse launching yet what I was looking for to see on the new video,
but if that's as good as the other attributes,
who knows, maybe you already caught up with the foil kite's advantages :?:

DrLW


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 Post subject: Re: Strutless kite in development on Maui
PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2012 7:25 pm 
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Location: drtuba.eu, kite-stuff.org, eXtremist.si, kajtar.si
Greg,

maybe M2C meant in a positive way below,

- "less prone to fail" - maybe but from experience having struts will somehow limit damage to less area of the canopy. Having no struts may remove that "limit" and since canopy may rip easier one can expect more/wider damage to the kite. Struts are usually least problematic item on kite (at least on most brands)
- having no strut support will increase stress in the canopy and fluttering doesn't make any good thing (well at least at depowering when flutter is say wanted :)). What will also happen - rubbing of the kite's canopy sitting on the ground will slowly mat/delaminate the fabrics starting at the TE of the kite. You may observe the results in one or two seasons (some of the brands have that problem), but I understand your on/off power. The fluttering may be more interesting thing in less wind as kite will behave differently, but from what I saw is that you figured out the arc/angles good.

Eventually I did choose to recreate modern 2 strut kite (my 1st 2 struts kites were made in 2003/04) instead of making that no strut because of the mentioned reasons and possible problems with relaunch.

What ronnie suggests is seen on the pic attached, did that in 2005 kite just to see if there is some truth behind (middle 3)... I'm not sure but I think that GIN comes out with that strut design...

Regarding relaunch I'd really like to see how it goes in deep water and directly downwind from you (so most unwanted situation) with an info on approx winds... like to see if that my tip thing raising the canopy back on do actually work... :) I have no doubt that it do reverse relaunch since the kite type is correct, but to see what happens before actual relaunch.

Anyway it's really nice to see that you enjoy every minute with it!

:bye:

boardriding maui wrote:

In response to your questions: Yes, easier to repair is a good thing. "Less prone to fail" was more on my mind as one of my primary objectives.

Performance targets: Fast, range, drift, overall handling for how I like to ride. To keep it real, I was reminded today that its not immediately for everyone. The trim throw is short to keep depower within reach. For riders not accustomed to riding like this, it can be tough to adjust to.

Relaunch has been excellent. Probably even more so in light wind. Two days ago I watched two very experienced riders drift down the coast unable to relaunch in super light wind. While I wasn't out there beside them at the same time, all related experiences (some on the same day) are that the lighter the kite is, the easier it is to relaunch. When I've given other riders (on other kites) a launch on the beach lately, I'm blown away by the effort to even position the kite on its side. Its a very different experience. I think its a rigidity thing too. I don't expect readers to take my word for this. I will work on shooting some more video to illustrate. I didn't include it in earlier videos because I didn't think viewers would find it interesting. But, maybe some quick, 20 second clips won't put everyone to sleep.

Speaking of videos, in followup to the substantial response to the last kite video, a couple days ago I did re-post that video with some voiceover comments. This isn't too informative, but may touch on some of your performance questions. I've been too busy with the gear side, but should take a break to get the GoPro back out to keep sharing the latest.

As for your question on selling points, I dunno. I'm just doing my best to develop stuff I believe in, and hope it sells itself. Guess I'll see how that goes.

Thanks again for your interest.


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 Post subject: Re: Strutless kite in development on Maui
PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2012 9:43 am 
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Panchito - Really? That much stoke? For real? Thanks Man! I'm stoked too! To be able to share the stoke with others is so great.

Oldnbroken - The paipo pictured has a surfboard rocker, just lowered over the back half to work with the flex. My suggestion would be that rocker needs to be addressed with the specifics of the construction you choose. In my playing around, there are tons of fun solutions for outline. Most recently I've been steering away from the wide point being too far forward. The surfboard outline templates I tried work fine, but don't yield the same result as on a board with a traditional rail, so I got more stoked on outlines stretching in different directions. The paipo I finally put in production has a very wide tail, so planes off super fast and tracks upwind like a mofo.

Ronnie - Thanks for posting the video. Yeah, the strut concept you mentioned is super interesting. I've only seen this on the North Rebel, where it seems to work great.

Rowboat - Thanks. I'm stoked to share anywhere there's interest. For sure I agree regarding twisting. For squirt, maybe like accelerating through the window out of a pivot turn with a squirt of power?

DrLightWind - Thank you very much for your great compliments and insight. Much appreciated. I can't compare,contrast with foils as its been too long since I've flown one. However, my first kite was a Flexifoil blade, and I've never forgotten how light and compact it was. Was surely a big influence in this project.

Gigi - Thanks for your positive intentions. This project was strongly influenced by a day a couple years ago when I met a friend for a session and we discovered all valves had come unstuck off his premium brand kite. This left me highly motivated to develop different solutions.


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 Post subject: Re: Strutless kite in development on Maui
PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2012 9:47 am 
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Location: Save a life...adopt a Pitbull
...put in production?
Please tell more.


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 Post subject: Re: Strutless kite in development on Maui
PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2012 10:03 am 
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Doesn't the flapping of the TE harm the material ?
All major kite brands are trying to decrease the flapping of the material...


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