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spinning front line mod for old swivel

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merl
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spinning front line mod for old swivel

Postby merl » Mon Oct 08, 2012 11:30 am

Old swivels don't spin because the front lines are too close together. Not tried this mod yet so might be worthless but posting in case anyone is interested.
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2012-10-07 13.44.52.jpg

JGTR
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Re: spinning front line mod for old swivel

Postby JGTR » Mon Oct 08, 2012 11:57 am

Hmmmmm.....knots in front lines, did you spec the line to take account of the weakening effect of the knots?

BWD
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Re: spinning front line mod for old swivel

Postby BWD » Mon Oct 08, 2012 1:36 pm

line spec and knots probably not a concern -it's thick, got to be >1000lbs spec, so even knotted it's ok i believe.
To me the concern is the risk of chafing through the lines at the ends of the compression tube
Also, not so good to have the lines crossing through the tube anyway, lack of safety option.
..but there should be easy solutions for both!
It's a brilliant idea, compared to the heavy, clunky, "improved" designs on new $$$ bars.
A little tweaking for safety and you have a great design.

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edt
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Re: spinning front line mod for old swivel

Postby edt » Mon Oct 08, 2012 3:41 pm

5 inches is much much much more than you need, to mod the current swivel you have all you need is get some thick rope, about 3/4 or 1 inch in diameter and tie a loop between the two lines for a spacer that will be plenty of distance to spin it.

ronnie
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Re: spinning front line mod for old swivel

Postby ronnie » Mon Oct 08, 2012 3:48 pm

I'm guessing it wont work due to not being a solid frame to create the leverage.

There are swivels you can buy which do that more effectively but they are expensive.

http://www.mutinykites.com/content/mutiny-swivel-0

I think the swivel at the chickenloop is maybe the best solution because you can untwist the lines manually and are not relying on the swivel doing it automatically, but I would be happy to have to change my mind if a new swivel design worked and always kept working.

merl
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Re: spinning front line mod for old swivel

Postby merl » Wed Oct 10, 2012 9:30 am

Yes I will have to watch it carefully. As mentioned the line is thick (not kite line) so knots are no problem. The line is also taped with cloth tape at the points where it passes through the carbon tube. But it would be better to case the lines in longer soft tubing first and then the stiff tube to avoid the sharp bend and possible wear at the corners.

It feels like it is stiff enough to work but I'll let you know how it goes. The price of the mutiny unit is part of the motivation :D

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Re: spinning front line mod for old swivel

Postby ronnie » Mon Apr 15, 2013 10:13 am

This is how I modded a Mutiny swivel for flagging to one front line. I haven't used it yet, so its just to show one possible way to do it.
With safety systems, you have to be sure that everything works well and will keep working.

I drilled out the 2 holes at either side of the swivel to about 6.2mm so the cable end would just slide through but be tight.
Then I located the end of the hollow inside the cable eye, ground a small flat on each side and drilled a 3mm hole through. Next was to cut the cable eye hollow end off leaving about 1/4" below the hole.
Then I drilled a 3/32" hole into the swivel at either side near the bottom of the thickest part of the swivel and put a screw through the cable eye to pin it in place.
The cable eye and screw are A4/316 stainless steel.

It so happened I already had a Mutiny swivel and decided to mod it.

The Naish universal swivel is designed to flag to one or two front lines so if I had been starting from scratch, I would have bought the Naish one and used it instead of doing this mod.

http://www.tecni-cable.co.uk/3mm-A4-AIS ... 08-814-030


The eye in the end of the 3mm cable eye is 6mm diameter and on the bar I am goint to fit it to, the flagging line has to pass through a 6mm hole as the smallest hole in the system, so I have elongated the hole in the eye to make it easier for the front line to pass through.
I will have to make sure that all the line connections pass through the system, but the connection below the blue float ball will be slightly bigger than the other connections, so it will not go through the float ball, which has to have a hole smaller than 6mm.
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mutiny 3mm cable eye.jpg

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AndKite
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Re: spinning front line mod for old swivel

Postby AndKite » Mon Apr 15, 2013 10:41 am

ronnie wrote:This is how I modded a Mutiny swivel for flagging to one front line. I haven't used it yet, so its just to show one possible way to do it.
With safety systems, you have to be sure that everything works well and will keep working.

I drilled out the 2 holes at either side of the swivel to about 6.2mm so the cable end would just slide through but be tight.
Then I located the end of the hollow inside the cable eye, ground a small flat on each side and drilled a 3mm hole through. Next was to cut the cable eye hollow end off leaving about 1/4" below the hole.
Then I drilled a 3/32" hole into the swivel at either side near the bottom of the thickest part of the swivel and put a screw through the cable eye to pin it in place.
The cable eye and screw are A4/316 stainless steel.

It so happened I already had a Mutiny swivel and decided to mod it.

The Naish universal swivel is designed to flag to one or two front lines so if I had been starting from scratch, I would have bought the Naish one and used it instead of doing this mod.

http://www.tecni-cable.co.uk/3mm-A4-AIS ... 08-814-030


The eye in the end of the 3mm cable eye is 6mm diameter and on the bar I am goint to fit it to, the flagging line has to pass through a 6mm hole as the smallest hole in the system, so I have elongated the hole in the eye to make it easier for the front line to pass through.
I will have to make sure that all the line connections pass through the system, but the connection below the blue float ball will be slightly bigger than the other connections, so it will not go through the float ball, which has to have a hole smaller than 6mm.


BIG WARNING!

That system has a risk of being "one use". The flying line, the one with the black sleeving, is not spliced. This means that when you release it will work fine, but when you reset and power up the kite again, the sleeving will most likely end up snagged on the cable eye, and then it will rip through all the stitchings and effectively open the loop. The risk is even bigger, since the line runs through the hole in the cable eye at a 90 degree angle.

I would not use this system as such. Google Brummel splice and consider taking the black sleeving out and replacing the loop with one made with splicing. I have done it on several lines, works a charm!

ronnie
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Re: spinning front line mod for old swivel

Postby ronnie » Mon Apr 15, 2013 11:00 am

AndKite wrote:
ronnie wrote:This is how I modded a Mutiny swivel for flagging to one front line. I haven't used it yet, so its just to show one possible way to do it.
With safety systems, you have to be sure that everything works well and will keep working.

I drilled out the 2 holes at either side of the swivel to about 6.2mm so the cable end would just slide through but be tight.
Then I located the end of the hollow inside the cable eye, ground a small flat on each side and drilled a 3mm hole through. Next was to cut the cable eye hollow end off leaving about 1/4" below the hole.
Then I drilled a 3/32" hole into the swivel at either side near the bottom of the thickest part of the swivel and put a screw through the cable eye to pin it in place.
The cable eye and screw are A4/316 stainless steel.

It so happened I already had a Mutiny swivel and decided to mod it.

The Naish universal swivel is designed to flag to one or two front lines so if I had been starting from scratch, I would have bought the Naish one and used it instead of doing this mod.

http://www.tecni-cable.co.uk/3mm-A4-AIS ... 08-814-030


The eye in the end of the 3mm cable eye is 6mm diameter and on the bar I am goint to fit it to, the flagging line has to pass through a 6mm hole as the smallest hole in the system, so I have elongated the hole in the eye to make it easier for the front line to pass through.
I will have to make sure that all the line connections pass through the system, but the connection below the blue float ball will be slightly bigger than the other connections, so it will not go through the float ball, which has to have a hole smaller than 6mm.


BIG WARNING!

That system has a risk of being "one use". The flying line, the one with the black sleeving, is not spliced. This means that when you release it will work fine, but when you reset and power up the kite again, the sleeving will most likely end up snagged on the cable eye, and then it will rip through all the stitchings and effectively open the loop. The risk is even bigger, since the line runs through the hole in the cable eye at a 90 degree angle.

I would not use this system as such. Google Brummel splice and consider taking the black sleeving out and replacing the loop with one made with splicing. I have done it on several lines, works a charm!


That's a good point.

The black lines are just a pair of pigtails I used for the photo to illustrate the way things will be connected - they are not the front lines. All of the lines are just for photo demo as I will have to trial different lines to make sure they all flow through and return and dont wear too much.

I have also opened out the hole through the eye in an elongated, slanted fashion so the line will have a more direct slide through it. I also ground slight recesses into the black plastic of the swivel so the front line can go directly from the eye to the central swivel hole.

If I am not completely sure it will work well, I will just have to use the original bar layout which will require flagging to one front line with a leash that hangs underneath the control bar.

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AndKite
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Re: spinning front line mod for old swivel

Postby AndKite » Mon Apr 15, 2013 11:36 am

ronnie wrote:
That's a good point.

The black lines are just a pair of pigtails I used for the photo to illustrate the way things will be connected - they are not the front lines. All of the lines are just for photo demo as I will have to trial different lines to make sure they all flow through and return and dont wear too much.

I have also opened out the hole through the eye in an elongated, slanted fashion so the line will have a more direct slide through it. I also ground slight recesses into the black plastic of the swivel so the front line can go directly from the eye to the central swivel hole.

If I am not completely sure it will work well, I will just have to use the original bar layout which will require flagging to one front line with a leash that hangs underneath the control bar.


Ok good. Make sure u have as few connection points as possible running through the cable eye when releasing.

Check this site out. my new favourite.
http://www.animatedknots.com/brummeldemo/index.php?
This method is good for kitelines.
http://www.animatedknots.com/brummel/index.php?

Also, be careful not weakening the plastic too much, that was most likely designe to use as little material as posible, so if you take some more out, you may end up with something that breaks.

Good luck, have fun and be safe =)


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