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 Post subject: Re: Health of Kite Industry?
PostPosted: Sat Oct 13, 2012 3:18 am 
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John Doe wrote:
I think they have to remedy some things with the pricing of gear. It's a little nutso to think of what you pay for a full rig retail;

1 Kite & Bar; $1600
1 Board; $845
1 Wetsuit; $300
1 Harness; $150
Total $2895 (without tax)

Let alone if you decide to get a couple kites. Yes you can buy used, which I have done forever. And I know not many people pay full retail all the time. But I remember when everything started, kites were around $600-$700. Most guys threw straps on surfboards & used our windsurfing harness which got us into the sport for well under $1k.

I really, really want to splurge & get a new board but my choice is ride my trusty old-heavy strapped board or 2 tickets to Maui this winter (with some cash let over). Which do you think I chose?

It seems as though there has been a price spike in terms of gear within the last 2 years or so. Yes the gear has gotten way better but still, I wish things were more affordable.

JD


??
one of my first kites, f-one shadow 9m, retail price was $2300,
first kiteboard, custom fox, 6' 10'', ..$1000
circa 1999.

markets shrinking... like all fads do eventually.


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 Post subject: Re: Health of Kite Industry?
PostPosted: Sat Oct 13, 2012 3:40 am 
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Posts: 114
Cost = China. That is the simple math.

Some other issues = China as well. Slingshot can now produce their own boards locally to a decent price structure and I'm wondering how long it will be before we see some kites produced elsewhere? I also wonder if the Olympics might affect this as we all know the current factories are leaky as sieves and if a company has a winning design they might want a little more secrecy around it or the ability to adjust/produce shorter runs without having to book time a year in advance?


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 Post subject: Re: Health of Kite Industry?
PostPosted: Sat Oct 13, 2012 9:36 am 
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I used to buy new kites every year, because I was able to buy them at the shops intake price ( my son was working for an importer)
Now that advantage is gone, I purchased new kites, the cheapest available on the market Switchkites, and I must admit, I am not less happy with them, I have used them for 2 seasons now...and am planning to fly them till they fall apart.

Then if they still exist, I will buy them again.
Why should I pay double for big brand kites, if I get minimal the same to better quality in a cheap kite.
As long as this world wide crisis carries on, people are watching their pockets, and this will give cheaper brands proving equal to better quality an important marketshare.

Dude :cool2:


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 Post subject: Re: Health of Kite Industry?
PostPosted: Sun Oct 14, 2012 7:42 pm 
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naishdude wrote:
...

... I purchased new kites, the cheapest available on the market , and I must admit, I am not less happy with them, I have used them for 2 seasons now...and am planning to fly them till they fall apart.

...

Dude :cool2:


I never used a Switchkites brand ; but for the most-part, i refuse to purchase
"Cheap-Sh*t" simply for the reason that it's Cheap ! That is how China gets
to sell so much Crap not worth having.

The stuff from China can be Good ((IF)) the company that's having it made there will
stays on them at Every angle and watch them carefully. The Chinese can be
very talented ," when they Want to". Like the Vietnamese people, they can be
quite talented at making stuff also ; i think a kite company and an RC airplane company
has stuff made there and it appears to be well constructed.


I Will however, purchase a Good brand "used" the following year or end of season
sail to save money.

A girl here in Vegas, got cheep kites that were Always breaking ; when i mentioned that
she was using my 11M Ozone Edge --- More than me ---, she got pissed. The
point is that even used gear from a reputable company , usually lasts longer
than Cheap-Stuff ...

I think kiting is no different than other sports that cost Money, it's usually
pays to shop around before laying down your bucks. Used snow skies are
usually not worth the savings ; i'm just glad i got a brother that can afford new
stuff every year so i get his , "hand - me - downs" ! Really wish he was into kiting.

Bille


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 Post subject: Re: Health of Kite Industry?
PostPosted: Sun Oct 14, 2012 8:37 pm 
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i bought a switch combat at full price and i have had it for about 4-5 months now. I really like it, no other kite like it i have ridden on market. Direct sales for sure give opportunity to younger riders to get into kiting that otherwise could not afford it. I asked some younger riders why there were not more of their friends getting into it and they all answered - the cannot afford it.

I think kiteboarding is at an interesting stage. Diversification of disciplines is at an all time high whereas back in the day, most riders did a bit of everything. It's not a new sport any more - everyone knows it. The % of riders getting into kiting are less likely to be into the more extreme side of kiting today, more lawn mowers. I think kiting is still growing but has had too many brands to support themselves in the past. Olympics hype puts kiting in the public eye and for sure gets punters thinking about doing it, but generally not with aspirations of doing the actual potential olympic discipline. It takes a special kind of rider to go kite race lawn mowing training when the waves and freestyle potential is awesome. I think kiting is still growing, but not at a huge pace.

I have noticed quite a few people actually give up in the last couple of years that had been kiting for many years, and get into other sports, I would think the changes in the industry products (getting more complicated and specialized ), increased crowding, increased beurocracy and a change in the kind of people getting into kiting today (less that are into pushing the limits of what was a new sport) has been a big part of that. Kiting is for sure running towards the stage that windsurfing was at where everything got too complicated/ specialized and expensive (as a result of that specialization). Kiteboarding may well end up eating itself alive if it is not careful.


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 Post subject: Re: Health of Kite Industry?
PostPosted: Sun Oct 14, 2012 9:39 pm 
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Hi Bille:
As soon as you drive a new car off the dealer's lot, it substantially declines in re-sale value. The same can be said of a new kite. The rapid decline in value comes directly out of the customer's pocket because what he pays is as much related to the dealer/distributor margins as the true manufacturing cost. This is why you and many others look for a used kite if you can't get a new one at an insider/dealer cost.

The Switch price structure is strictly based on eliminating hefty middle-man margins rather than reduced build cost, quality of construction or R&D. Dedicated in-house design and engineering, exclusive production (unshared by other brands) and state-of-the-art Dimension Polyant and Teijin fabrics are definitely not cheap.
Cheers! :thumb: :thumb: :thumb:

PS: If you are brand/dealer loyal and feel they offer significant increased value, then by all means support them! But, IMHO, asking for, expecting or receiving a discount to make the sale, shows the price is excessive in relation to manufacturing cost as well as the perceived value for both the product and the dealer.
Bille wrote:
I never used a Switchkites brand; but for the most-part, i refuse to purchase
"Cheap-Sh*t" simply for the reason that it's Cheap!


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 Post subject: Re: Health of Kite Industry?
PostPosted: Sun Oct 14, 2012 11:11 pm 
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Location: www.silentsports.com
I think with the current equipment from the manufactures there has not been a better time to get into kiting from a beginners perspective. Excellent kites,safety systems and a huge range of board choices make it easy to get the right stuff. Lots of instructional information and lessons are available.
Where IMO the industry is having issues is with the current riders. The equipment for the last 5 yrs or so say is pretty much been the same. It is evolving and refining but really, how much better is the 2013 model than the 12 ,11 10 or 9. If you fly the same brand and model kite over a period of say 5yrs (I did Cab SB's new ones every year) you soon realize that the kite is better but its not a game changer must have(remember,just MO). So now the industry has gone to specific discipline kites and boards to increase product lines and give the rider a specific kite or board that he/she can purchase. To me this is the windsurfing all over again. Wave Sails/Boards,Slalom Sails/Board, Race,Bump and jump, you get the idea. Where windsurfing shot it self in the foot was totally forgetting about the beginner, the new customers to the sport could not get into windsurfing in the early 90's if they wanted to cause the equipment was all high wind/high end.
When I started Kiting, the choice was a 2 line kite and a directional board. Now the equipment choice is huge. So are the costs. Used equipment is great option for most because,a) price b) performance. To stay healthy the industry must a) keep pricing inline and/or b) increase the performance of the product to the next level to sell riders new kites and boards.
Thats my take ,I'm probably full of shit...lol


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 Post subject: Re: Health of Kite Industry?
PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2012 12:21 am 
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bigwave wrote:
I think with the current equipment from the manufactures there has not been a better time to get into kiting from a beginners perspective. Excellent kites,safety systems and a huge range of board choices make it easy to get the right stuff. Lots of instructional information and lessons are available.
...

Thats my take ,I'm probably full of shit...lol


I Don't think your full of it at all ; i think you Nailed it, (as long as you can deal
with owning "Used" stuff ) !!

Reading My last post again : it could be interpreted as a bash on Switchkites ---
It Wasn't suppose to be delivered that way !!
Cheap sh*t is just that , and according to your business model i would doubt that Switch is in
that category.
I'd like to try one some day.

Seriously though : " a Lot of people can't see how sometimes there's a correlation between getting what you pay for
and
having a new Kite break for No apparent reason".

That's Why i choose to purchase "Used", rather than own a New , (POS). If i wasn't such
a Lazy F**k, i could afford New stuff, the jobs Have bin offered, i'd rather
just stretch the Best value for my buck that i can get , and Play as much as i can
before i die --------------------------------------------------------------------(again).

As far as the Health of the kite industry goes ; can't be doing Too bad if
their demanding That much money for what is claimed to be Current technology.

Bille


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 Post subject: Re: Health of Kite Industry?
PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2012 2:34 am 
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Hansen Aerosports wrote:
The rapid decline in value comes directly out of the customer's pocket because what he pays is as much related to the dealer/distributor margins as the true manufacturing cost.


So by this logic you should be able to sell a Switch kite used for the same as premium brands?


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 Post subject: Re: Health of Kite Industry?
PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2012 4:44 am 
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Hi Taut:
That is your logic. :nono:

Definition: Better deal = buying a competitive product for less money.

I am saying a Switch kite is a better deal than other brands with mark-ups (unless you buy direct from the manufacturer like you do from Switch.) And, a used Switch kite is also a better deal for the same reason. :thumb:
tautologies wrote:
So by this logic you should be able to sell a Switch kite used for the same as premium brands?


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