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 Post subject: Is there a single best design of Control bar?
PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2012 12:43 pm 
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I'm coming round to thinking that a bar which had

1. A swivel on the chickenloop that the flagging line goes through.

2. Doubled powerlines through the bar, because you can have a stopper that works well, the Zeeko Ultimate bar style trim adjustment (if you want), you can have generic parts - ie. just rope, and it is versatile for trim systems.

3. A bar which can be switched to at least two different lengths my moving 2 larks head knots on the rear lines and has soft padding on the inside of the ends and plenty of line wrapping space.

4. The Q/R for the chickenloop should release one end of the loop and be easy to reassemble.

Those are the things which are available now, which IMO would make a pretty universal bar.

The only unresolved issue IMO is the trim system
Should it be above the bar or below the bar on the front lines, or should it be on the rear lines and maybe inside the bar?

The trim system issue aside, I would like to be able to buy a bar a chickenloop and some adjustable pigtails (like the Cabrinha ones) and everything else up to the kite you make/replace yourself from stuff you can buy at a chandlers.


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 Post subject: Re: Is there a single best design of Control bar?
PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2012 3:34 pm 
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Completely subjective. This is all based on your personal preferences to what you like based off of your own experience or lack of.

I personally cut down my bars and don't use one over 20" long and that's for my 13m Fuel. For 7m, and 9m I cut down to 14". I believe that bars are made too long and have not been reduced to match the improvements in kite turning speed. I only like above the bar trim, and prefer a larger chicken loop. I like to unhook and I prefer to only have about an inch of play from my loop to the bar while riding.

Besides it is far too easy to modify a bar to the way you like it.

I would like to try a pulley bar just have been too lazy to build one. Might do that this winter while I'm not on the water.


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 Post subject: Re: Is there a single best design of Control bar?
PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2012 3:41 pm 
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I would like a bar that could be sheeted in or out, ( when/while ) i was
also giving full control for a turn . My Ozone bar will stick whenever i'm in a
turn and won't un-stick for sheeting, until after i back-off the turn a bunch first.
The plastic they got to protect the 8mm cord seams to grab like glue in a turn.

Bille


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 Post subject: Re: Is there a single best design of Control bar?
PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2012 4:05 pm 
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Location: Ford Lake, Michigan
there are tradeoffs for every design

single line chicken line means you can put a polyurethane tube over it and decrease wear to almost nothing

double line chicken loop lets you use a slider stopper

microloop is more convenient than a slider stopper but introduces dangers to beginners

center line spinner introduces convenience but it increases the complexity of the bar

center line flag out systems give you 100% depower but introduce wear on the flag out line because it has to pass through the center of the bar and mean you can't use q-power line on your center lines

above the bar depower is easier to use, but below the bar depower allows you to leash onto the depower line so you don't have a flag out line to wear out

center push release is safer for beginners but introduces a more complex system than a simple side pull quick release

The high Y mini-5th line system is much more convenient than a single center line flag out because the bar only runs up the bar about 3 meters instead of the 10 meters required for a full flag out on one line, which means the high Y mini-5th control bars easier to relaunch, but are not compatible with kites that can't use the high Y.


If had a favorite bar it would be combination of the quad trust with a microloop and the slingshot bar's single line flag, instead of the Y. Not a fan of the Y because it relies on having a particular type of bridle -- you can't swap a Y mini-5th line flag out and hope it will work with your other kites. Also the high Y will pinch your kite, I was riding a high Y control bar with a singshot key 7 the other day and it lost all its power (until I swappped back in a normal bar) because the kite was pinched. I could actually see the elbows of the kite sagging in where it got pinched.


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 Post subject: Re: Is there a single best design of Control bar?
PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2012 5:02 pm 
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Cabrinha makes a pretty damn fine bar.

My only gripe is the release is a little bit complicated to put back together, classic over engineering, but once you've done it a few times its no problem.

Also the little toggle balls on the 2012 bar can be difficult to grab if your fingers are cold or you're wearing gloves. However, they fixed that on the 2013 bar with nice big T handles. :)


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 Post subject: Re: Is there a single best design of Control bar?
PostPosted: Thu Oct 18, 2012 12:31 am 
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What edt said :yes:

C Johnson wrote:
Cabrinha makes a pretty damn fine bar.

My only gripe is the release is a little bit complicated to put back together, classic over engineering, but once you've done it a few times its no problem.

Also the little toggle balls on the 2012 bar can be difficult to grab if your fingers are cold or you're wearing gloves. However, they fixed that on the 2013 bar with nice big T handles. :)

The older QR is better, yeah.


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 Post subject: Re: Is there a single best design of Control bar?
PostPosted: Thu Oct 18, 2012 4:03 am 
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Location: Winnipeg, Canada
Core Sensor bar is pretty slick.


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 Post subject: Re: Is there a single best design of Control bar?
PostPosted: Thu Oct 18, 2012 10:37 am 
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It seems the answer is still NO.

Maybe one day someone will figure out a practical way to sheet the rear lines that most people will like.
We may then end up with a short single tube as the powerline with the flagging line through the centre.
That would be a clean system.

The only unique plus point I see with that Core bar is that the two lines are in line across the bar, so it would be easier to hold the bar with the lines between the fingers.


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 Post subject: Re: Is there a single best design of Control bar?
PostPosted: Thu Oct 18, 2012 1:00 pm 
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Have you evaluated/looked at Flysurfer Infinitybar 2.0? There are many similar points to Core bar.

req 1 - check
req 2 - check with stopper ball included
req 3 - check
req 4 - check, at least I can reassemble CL while kite is flying at zenith, but you need 2 hands IMO

Trim is a strap-type above bar. You can sheet-in and sheet-out the bar when turning. Flagging line goes throught the center.

Or have I missed something on the requirement side?



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 Post subject: Re: Is there a single best design of Control bar?
PostPosted: Thu Oct 18, 2012 1:42 pm 
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Core bar has adjustable length but the Flysurfer doesn't? or has small adjustment?

I like the swivel - might be better with a cone shape to meet the bar and it would be nicer if it was shaped for the rope to slide through it easier to suit a Zeeko type trim system.

I dont like the rope end of the loop for reassembly of the Q/R - too fiddly. I prefer a square ring which is the same width as the diameter of the loop tube and will tend to line up easily. I think thats on the Best or Zeeko loop?

The donkeydick is a good idea - solid tube with a bungee line inside. Good generic solution.


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