Contact   Imprint   Advertising   Guidelines

Emergency - Flagging out kites

forum for kitesurfers


User avatar
bnthere
Frequent Poster
Posts: 391
Joined: Thu Feb 12, 2009 9:50 pm
Kiting since: 2000
Local Beach: South Padre Island and South Texas USA

Hood River and the Columbia River Gorge USA
Favorite Beaches: South Padre Island Texas: year round the best flatwater and fall - winter - spring fun wave riding as well.
Style: all styles of kite riding
Gear: Blade
Mystic
WindAlert
Brand Affiliation: Blade
Mystic
WindAlert
Seadoo
Headzone

Re: Emergency - Flagging out kites

Postby bnthere » Fri Oct 19, 2012 6:24 pm

andkite, that is a very good post regarding bar recovery after disabling the kite.

those techniques are spot on. i like how you include information regarding preparedness to re-release as the lines reset tension in case of line tangles or snags on the kite. that is very important to impart to people (knowledge of likely situations to be prepared for potential problems, and how to be ready to deal with them)

Jono 111
Frequent Poster
Posts: 277
Joined: Mon Feb 13, 2006 8:25 pm

Re: Emergency - Flagging out kites

Postby Jono 111 » Fri Oct 19, 2012 6:24 pm

Yep Bille....that's how the North 5th line works.

The kite releases onto a single front line and is harmless - fully flagged out, no power.

Then if you want to relaunch from the water, just put your CL back together if you released it, get the bar back and away you go again.

If you're packing down from this flagged position in the water, simply wrap the 5th on the bar a few times then wind all lines together as normal. No tangles....

User avatar
AndKite
Medium Poster
Posts: 141
Joined: Sat Apr 30, 2011 11:26 pm
Kiting since: 2004
Style: Freeride, waves
Location: Europe

Re: Emergency - Flagging out kites

Postby AndKite » Fri Oct 19, 2012 7:32 pm

bnthere wrote:andkite, that is a very good post regarding bar recovery after disabling the kite.

those techniques are spot on. i like how you include information regarding preparedness to re-release as the lines reset tension in case of line tangles or snags on the kite. that is very important to impart to people (knowledge of likely situations to be prepared for potential problems, and how to be ready to deal with them)


Thanks. I do know the procedure by heart, we teach each and every student this and we have had a few of those passing through the school.

Blatantly grabbing and resetting the CL may work, but may also get you in trouble as the kite will start pulling and resetting the flag/5th line as soon as you grab the CL. If you are not fast enough resetting the CL you may end up with a fully powered kite holding on to the CL. If you are lucky you just let go of the CL and retry. If you are unlucky flag/5th line has caught on to something (leg, arm, harness, board..) or you have some other tangle, and you may be in bigger problem.

Of course, experienced kiters may be able to see if lines are fine or not, and thus can take the decision wether to to full recovery procedure or "short version" but it is dangerous to teach/show this as it may become dangerous for the unlucky/unexperienced.

Any kite using a full lenght 5th line is essentially the same as a front line flagging kite. Same technique can and should be used.

User avatar
edt
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 4205
Joined: Fri Jul 16, 2010 6:27 am
Kiting since: 2010
Local Beach: ford lake Michigan
Style: boots only
Gear: fuel envy wainman pansh naish jaime cwb

Re: Emergency - Flagging out kites

Postby edt » Fri Oct 19, 2012 10:28 pm

tks bnthere, I dont ride naish so I wasnt sure about that one. So to summarize,

for 4 line kites as of 2012

Y-mini-5th line quick release: cabrinha, best, north, airush, epic, switch, gk, core, ocean rodeo

single center line flag out: ozone, slingshot, liquid force, wainman, blade, naish

I don't want to comment on older kite control bars because it would take a spreadsheet to get all the details right.

Bille if you have single center line flag out if you don't want the bar to shoot all the way up put one of these

Image

With a short piece of line figure 8 knotted and then larks headed and lock stitched 10 meters up on your line. It will stop the bar and if you attach it correctly won't decrease line strength. This is what ozone uses on their flag out line.

jmach
Rare Poster
Posts: 21
Joined: Thu Jan 30, 2014 12:28 am
Kiting since: 2014
Gear: none
Brand Affiliation: None

Re: Emergency - Flagging out kites

Postby jmach » Thu Sep 03, 2015 8:33 pm

AndKite wrote:
Bille wrote:
I would like a flag-out system that i could pull back in and relaunch without
all my lines getting tangled ; does that exist ?

Bille


If you do a proper bar recovery procedure, you should be fine. Done it a gazillion times with my students, and it usually works like a charm.

For anyone not knowing what i mean by that, here below is what I teach my students. You can and should practice this. It can be done dry, with kite landed, the first time. If you have doubts, ask certified instructor or someone you know has this knowledge.

Bar recovery procedure
For one front line flag or Y mini 5th system (flag system should have stopper ball):
After you released the bar, and you are ready to recover and relaunch, approach the bar by pulling the flag/5th line with your hands ON TOP of the line (so you can let it go in case something happens, without risk of burning or getting snagged). Do not collect the line, just let it pass you floating.

Once at the bar, do not go for the CL. Hold on tight to the flag/5th line w one hand and grab preferred bar end (no matter what side). Begin rolling flag/5th line around bar end to lock. Best is to wind all flag/5th line until leash attachments, less risk of getting legs tangled, especially if in deep water. When all line is rolled, attach with half hitch. Now you have your bar, the kite is flagged and the flag/5th line is secure and the kite wont power up.

Now, one option is to roll all lines on bar like when packing to securely approach kite for self rescue or packdown. You reach the kite with a tidy bar, no lines hanging around or anything.

Other option is now to reset chicken loop and connect it to your harness. Then undo the half hitches on the flag/5th line. Start unrolling until only a few turns are left on the bar. Pause here and check if kite looks good. If so, undo the last turns, hold on tight to flag/5th line.

Let go of bar, grab safety release on CL, release the flag/5th line completely. Dont let the line drag through your hands, don't hinder the line, just let the kite pull the line through in its own pace. If you hold on to the flag/5th line during this, it might cause the kite to behave strangely. Keep you hand on the safety release in case something happens, and look at the kite.

This should reset your kite to relaunchable position in a safe and tangle free manor. If something happens, pull safety again and redo procedure if possible.

Remember, even if lines happen to be inverted (steering lines run through middle of front lines) the kite can still function and fly thus take you back to the beach. Just take it easy, no big moves.



Is this still the preferred method for single front line flag out bar recovery?

Bushflyr
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 614
Joined: Thu Jul 24, 2014 11:14 pm
Kiting since: 1999
Gear: OR Razor 7m
Caution Spitfire 9m, 10m
Firewire Vanguard 5' 4"
Naish Global 5' 10"
Shinn Monk
Brand Affiliation: None

Re: Emergency - Flagging out kites

Postby Bushflyr » Fri Sep 04, 2015 3:58 am

jmach wrote:
Is this still the preferred method for single front line flag out bar recovery?


Yeah. Ball it up and swim in. Because that's what you're going to wind up with in the real world. 2 Front line flag is by far the best for all but rank beginners.

User avatar
matthepp
Frequent Poster
Posts: 359
Joined: Mon Oct 13, 2008 3:51 am
Kiting since: 2008
Local Beach: RMP
Favorite Beaches: La Ventana
Kino Bay
Red Mountain Pass
Style: Rich
Gear: 2008 Best Waroo 9m
OR Razor 12m
BD Carbon Megawatts
Space Pickle
Brand Affiliation: Alpine Edge Engineering
Location: Ridgway

Re: Emergency - Flagging out kites

Postby matthepp » Fri Sep 04, 2015 5:35 am

Bushflyr wrote:. 2 Front line flag is by far the best for all but rank beginners.


With all due respect, I call bullshit.

Bushflyr
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 614
Joined: Thu Jul 24, 2014 11:14 pm
Kiting since: 1999
Gear: OR Razor 7m
Caution Spitfire 9m, 10m
Firewire Vanguard 5' 4"
Naish Global 5' 10"
Shinn Monk
Brand Affiliation: None

Re: Emergency - Flagging out kites

Postby Bushflyr » Fri Sep 04, 2015 5:41 am

matthepp wrote:With all due respect, I call bullshit.


OK. So back it up with evidence.

I've used single flag systems. If you punch the release you wind up, yes, depowering your kite, but you wind up with an irrecoverable mess. Time to swim in.

Now I use a dual flag system. I punch the release and it works perfectly. The kite depowers and everything stops. BUT, all I have to do is grab the centerline and reload the chicken loop and I'm back kiting. No small consideration when I'm over a mile offshore in double overhead surf.

So, matthepp, I, with "all due respect," submit that you have no idea WTF you're talking about.

naishdude
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 828
Joined: Tue Oct 14, 2008 9:14 am
Kiting since: 2008
Local Beach: Holland
Spain
Danemark
France
Favorite Beaches: everywhere at the seaside, where it is allowed to kite
Style: cruising& wave
Gear: Switchkites
Airush Cypher5'8 active compact 5'6 Compact5'5 active
SwitchkitesElement V4 13-9-7-5m
Brand Affiliation: Switchkites
Location: outer space

Re: Emergency - Flagging out kites

Postby naishdude » Fri Sep 04, 2015 7:13 am

Sorry guys small correction.
SWITCH CONTROLLER 2 is a single frontline

http://switchkites.com/bars/controller2.html

Cheers , dude :cool2:

User avatar
Bille
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 2801
Joined: Sun Sep 04, 2011 5:37 pm
Kiting since: 2003
Local Beach: Lake Mohave
Gear: Ozone Edge
Brand Affiliation: Barz Optics
Jaybar Dynabar V7

Re: Emergency - Flagging out kites

Postby Bille » Fri Sep 04, 2015 8:31 am

Bushflyr wrote:...
2 Front line flag is by far the best for all but rank beginners.


I didn't know my Ozone Edge , would flag on two front lines ?
Can you tell me how to mod it , so it does that ?

On second thought ; forget it !!
I doubt that your smarter than the designers at Ozone . -------------------- :lol:

Bille


Return to “Kitesurfing”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Dengan, gwicke, MSNbot Media, Thomas A, Tone, Yahoo [Bot] and 17 guests