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kite racing a one design???

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longwhitecloud
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Re: kite racing a one design???

Postby longwhitecloud » Wed Oct 24, 2012 11:31 am

add to that

one design fins
fixed line lengths, line diameter tolerances, line elasticity (ie no ultra thin high tensile linesets, also multiple length linesets..)
no ultralight kitebars technology
no cuben fibre/kevlar/americas cup sail technology 3d moulding of kites.. similar material kites
no hybrid lei/ram air/batton/complex pulley kites
no bladderless inflatable kite technology
no ultra light bladder kites
no strutless kites
no solid wing kites
no winglet/wing tip devices etc

these are my predictions i can think of

i see good and bad in both one design and box rule. i see one design as eating its way towards becoming more elitist though over time and it being hard to keep putting restrictions in place a s new technolgy ideas are developed, and the 25 knots average max limit for racing formula kiting events (sanctioned) has put me off too. just some ideas anyway.

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joe weiss
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Re: kite racing a one design???

Postby joe weiss » Wed Oct 24, 2012 12:28 pm

tautologies wrote:
joe weiss wrote:How One design is less expensive ?
I reckon Box = more competition between the manufacturers.
Competition regarding the design and the price.


yeah but no R&D has to be included in the price since they are all the same, and there is really no development cost. :-)


True but a RSX windsurfing kit costs about twice as much as a "regular" kit.

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davesails7
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Re: kite racing a one design???

Postby davesails7 » Wed Oct 24, 2012 1:33 pm

joe weiss wrote:How One design is less expensive ?
I reckon Box = more competition between the manufacturers.
Competition regarding the design and the price.


One design doesn't necessarily mean one manufacturer. Once the design is set, multiple manufacturers can build that same design. Even home built baoards could be allowed after being measured.

I don't care much about being on the latest and greatest equipment. The current boards are damn fast already. Racing downwind at 25 knots is fun. If you were on the next generation board going 25.2 knots downwind instead, would racing be more fun?

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Bille
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Re: kite racing a one design???

Postby Bille » Wed Oct 24, 2012 2:45 pm

davesails7 wrote:...
Racing downwind at 25 knots is fun. If you were on the next generation board going 25.2 knots downwind instead, would racing be more fun?


Perhaps NOT a lot more fun, but the pay-day would be a bunch bigger
if that , (.2mph) just made you winner of the Olympics !

NO-WAY should race boards be a one design with only one company making them
because the price for that item would go through the roof --AND-- then we'd be
stuck with the same stuff for the next 20 years. R&D would be stagnated.

Right now a guy could take the current state of the art board and mold it
to build his own if he wanted. A 20Lb bag of Hydro-Cal is less than $30, and the epoxy
gel-coat would be another $150 + some other small expenses.After i measured the surface
aria on the entire board, i would have a real close estimate of how much it would cost
along with it's approximate weight ; and there are a LOT of guys over on board-builders
forum that are a Bunch better at building than me !

NO --one design from One company-- please.
NO -- one design (.)

FASTER is BETTER !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Bille

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Re: kite racing a one design???

Postby naishdude » Wed Oct 24, 2012 5:55 pm

Airush has a one design class with its sectors, a sector one design board, but the sectorsV2 are also allowed, because of the same shape!
http://www.airush.com/blog/blog/airush- ... ss-release
Cheers
Dude :cool2:

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Re: kite racing a one design???

Postby Johnny Rotten » Wed Oct 24, 2012 7:39 pm

ONE DESIGN?!!!! are you kidding?

Boards JUST started using a wide 3 fin stance like 2-3 years ago!

in the last 5 years it's gone from guys racing twin tips then directionals then massive cambered fin directionals to quad fins to 190 x 70s rocking 3 40 cm fins.

Sure no one has come up with a cool change in the last 2 years but I don't think the current set up is even CLOSE to ideal. We've got so much sail, so little boat, no significant tipping moment, access to higher cleaner wind, and can generate apparent wind on demand by moving the kite. , We should be WAY faster and more efficient than current state of the art sailboats.

If 1600-2000 bucks is too much for a board you'll never be able to afford the travel to race internationally anyways so stop whining that you woulda coulda shoulda if only you could afford the board. Buy an airush sector on closeout or a used race board and have fun going fast and racing your buddies by enjoying some mellowed out trickle down technology that the "billionaire" racers paid for don't retard the sport

Box rule is bad enough......I'll be racing open class...... :evil:

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Re: kite racing a one design???

Postby longwhitecloud » Thu Oct 25, 2012 1:17 am

the sad thing is you cannot make your own board with box rule unless you produce minimum 300 i think it is, and register design...

i didn't think the airush one design sector was too bad a board when i rode it. They have a one design series in South Africa I think, kind of like the idea of getting busy on the water, less time playing development/ talking tech and makaing cash injections. each to their own..

I think it is fair to say the differences in performance between kiteboards - eg sector vs best box rule boards is way less than the differences that different windsurfers and boat designs have to deal with in the past. That is because of the lift from the kite - makes kiteboarding mechanics very different to sailing. I have beaten raceboards on my surfboard in higher winds, caught them up on downwind leg, at top level no way i would have chance of beating them though unless we start talking very windy, maybe then even some twip tips come into the game 9 reckon, but like i said no sanctioned racing of formula kiteboards over average 25 knots from 2013.. sounds exciting..not

ideal weight will for sure come into effect for various conditions /wind strengths more so with one design, but is the way it is for many sailing classes and windsurfing too especially in very light winds which olympics has a history of

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Bille
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Re: kite racing a one design???

Postby Bille » Thu Oct 25, 2012 5:01 am

longwhitecloud wrote:the sad thing is you cannot make your own board with box rule unless you produce minimum 300 i think it is, and register design...

...


That's Too Bad !!
Can you tell me : "Who's idea was That, ---------------- and Why" ?

I don't get it ; what is the Open class like , or Is there one ?

Bille

longwhitecloud
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Re: kite racing a one design???

Postby longwhitecloud » Thu Oct 25, 2012 8:44 am

yeah it is kind of sad you cant measure in/make your own board - with weight/dimension limitations that keep cost down for everyone (ie doesnt turn into formula 1!. )

It was IKA. it was going to be 30 i think? but now the 300 is so one country does not develop their own one of a kind boards investing $100000 to get a gold - countries actually do this! the uk invested huge money in olympic dinghy design development that seemed to pay off.. i think that is sad if olympics are about opportunity for different countries to compete fairly - but each to their own, some say no "if you cant afford the kit and teh travel don't do it" that kind of attitude..

and also so the kite industry gets behind it.. - smaller producers are out - 300 boards is a considerable investment to smaller brands when you add up prototyping too, if you end up with an average board in results - you won't sell any more!!!!

$$$... basically, kind of against the ethos of making things more affordable really, would really help less wealthy countries too. Optimists are a great example of an awesome class (for kids), anyone can make one if they measure in and even some dad made wooden boats can smoke the top production ones. Kiteboards are pretty cool as they use comparatively very little materials, a raceboard excluding fins to make yourself - materials / expendables less than $250 all in inc fin boxes footstrap inserts full carbon eps/pvc foam wrap.. need to add fridge compressor ( and a decent chemical mask...) + $80 to get eps shaped on cnc if you want full on accuracy.

who knows what is going to happen tho, both are being considered, I am sure both classes will emerge regardless of olympics, i think maybe one design fits into olympic ideals better, but i like teh idea of formula too when my knees give way from impacts spending more time geeking it up to go that bit faster - well maybe.. i really am not sure - especially with 25 knot max limit for racing.. i think i am more of a slalom kind of person 30 knots, narrower board, super fast reaches through swell yeeahhh, leave box rule kiting to the rsx kind of athletes maybe, it seems to be based more and more like that - we see what happens. one thing i do know is that there is way more to kite racing than the olympics class - always was - and that kiteboarding racing box rule/formula is being created to fit into the olympics to a certain extent which puts me off. i know what i like and it ain't light winds, the classic kiteboarding destinations would be out for formula kiting due to frequently averaging over 25 knots which is a shame as the biggest problem with traveling a long way to sanctioned events is sitting around waiting for wind - cost time (events that are longer than one weekend in order to increase wind likelihood) and money - rock up to maui - perth places like that - and there just would be no issues like this, i hate sitting around waiting.

i gotta stop writing books and get a life lol

The really sad thing is that there is th possibility to produce an awesome kiteboarding class very cheaply - a retractable centerboard twintip (cheap to produce - awesome downwind) and 3 strut kite - would still smoke most sailing classes i reckon.. maybe it will happen

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Re: kite racing a one design???

Postby tautologies » Thu Oct 25, 2012 9:34 am

300 must be an error. There is no market for those numbers. 30 is about right.


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