*


All times are UTC + 1 hour



Post new topic Reply to topic
 [ 98 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 6, 7, 8, 9, 10  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Re: Health of Kite Industry?
PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2012 8:45 pm 
Offline
Very Frequent Poster

Joined: Wed Dec 05, 2001 1:00 am
Posts: 1116
Most of the companies that have online stores are not competing with their retailers but using a service like Shopatron or Quivers which gives the nearest retailers within a geographic area close to the customer with IN STOCK PRODUCT the opportunity to fullfill the order...


Top
Profile
 Post subject: Re: Health of Kite Industry?
PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2012 8:56 pm 
Offline
Frequent Poster
User avatar

Joined: Fri Apr 08, 2011 7:57 am
Posts: 398
peterheirman wrote:
Spleene is gone too (Spleene mainly known by the Door)


Really? Are they gone too??? Any link?


Top
Profile
 Post subject: Re: Health of Kite Industry?
PostPosted: Tue Oct 30, 2012 8:02 am 
Offline
Frequent Poster
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jun 16, 2006 9:52 am
Posts: 357
Location: www.eightsmileys.com
This is a very interesting threat with people giving some solid information.

I will say a few things about the industry since i have been repairing and selling kites for some years.

I have been buying - selling kites for the last 5 years and had an exclusive Liquid Force distribution for Cyprus the last 4 years...now i am getting out of the business (i am selling my last stock, kitesurf repair station and then continue my other ventures).

Most of the brands, distributor pricing has a small difference 100 euros more or less than other brands.

My guess is that the market will shrink and companies that sell cheap or can sell cheap (don't use expensive marketing tools, advertisements, printings etc.) will get more sales.

We all know the Liquid Force, Cabrinha (they used to, i have not seen one of their latest kites), North maybe are the only brands that really use high end materials and a clever construction...i have repaired many kites and these are the brands i would say have very good quality and construction...and Naish although they are very heavily build = no low end! Lighter kites have better low end so it is a balance between weight vs quality.

There are different factories (2-3) that produce kites with a minimum order for 50 pieces.

A brand less kite 9 meter/complete from a factory costs 400 euros approx. ex works.

If you try to import it will be something like 500-550 euros for a kite you have no warranty and has not been well tested...i tried to produce some but then i said why bother!

If we take that as a reference it is not bad that in the end of the season a high end brand is sold for 800-900 euros...they give you quality, design, style, experiential marketing (ex. someone likes cabrinha because he feels that the kite will make him better or cool).

This is the way companies work...they want to create a certain image so that before you do buy or use a kite you know how it feels...experiential marketing...go to 2:00 to see what i am talking about http://www.ted.com/talks/dan_gilbert_asks_why_are_we_happy.html

To sum up i believe that retail price is over priced if someone cannot get a discount on retail price. Small companies that are more agile might be able to sell more since they sell cheap (even though in the end of the season they cannot compete the big brands). More people will buy kites end of the season used or new...the latest gear will stay up on the shelves...!

Companies will be much more efficient if they ever produce a customisable kite or windsurf sail.

You buy a main 7 size that somehow you can add 2 meters and making it a 9 meter...sounds crazy but it will save a lot!

I SUP also and do some surf! It is indeed as someone mentioned before a product that last forever.

I have a mini malibu that i have crashed and repaired it many times but still rides smoothly and it is strong after 4 years...the same goes with SUP!

All the best,

Philios.


Top
Profile
 Post subject: Re: Health of Kite Industry?
PostPosted: Tue Oct 30, 2012 9:40 am 
Offline
Medium Poster

Joined: Wed Aug 22, 2012 8:12 am
Posts: 123
john a wrote:
peterheirman wrote:
Spleene is gone too (Spleene mainly known by the Door)


Really? Are they gone too??? Any link?


Spleene has new owners, not gone as far as I know.


Top
Profile
 Post subject: Re: Health of Kite Industry?
PostPosted: Tue Oct 30, 2012 5:16 pm 
Offline
Frequent Poster
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jun 16, 2006 9:52 am
Posts: 357
Location: www.eightsmileys.com
This video is really interesting and gets to the core of our fashionable "freedom" sport...fashion junkies...http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=gLBE5QAYXp8#!


Top
Profile
 Post subject: Re: Health of Kite Industry?
PostPosted: Tue Oct 30, 2012 8:20 pm 
Offline
Medium Poster

Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2011 10:17 am
Posts: 170
GIN kites, Spleene and Underground are all gone.
Spleene and Underground have tried to restart but failed.

I guess more brands will stop their business.

I see two types of markets:
- the brands - expensive and cool (don't know what is cool about - got the same problem with German cars)
- the online discounters - low cost - value for money: Switch - Blade (a few other brands show jump to this market)

Never forget it's the kitesurfer (= YOU) that makes the difference - not so much the gear ($$$)


Top
Profile
 Post subject: Re: Health of Kite Industry?
PostPosted: Tue Oct 30, 2012 8:38 pm 
Offline
Very Frequent Poster
User avatar

Joined: Mon Feb 16, 2004 5:36 am
Posts: 8746
Location: Oahu
peterheirman wrote:
GIN kites, Spleene and Underground are all gone.
Spleene and Underground have tried to restart but failed.

I guess more brands will stop their business.

I see two types of markets:
- the brands - expensive and cool (don't know what is cool about - got the same problem with German cars)
- the online discounters - low cost - value for money: Switch - Blade (a few other brands show jump to this market)

Never forget it's the kitesurfer (= YOU) that makes the difference - not so much the gear ($$$)


Really Underground? How do you know? I mean if you don't have proof it could be very damaging for them if you say they went under. Anyways. :-


Top
Profile
 Post subject: Re: Health of Kite Industry?
PostPosted: Tue Oct 30, 2012 8:45 pm 
Offline
Frequent Poster

Joined: Mon Feb 13, 2006 8:25 pm
Posts: 277
I was surprised to see Umderground on that list too.

When did this (not?) happen?

Adrian Roper shaped my first custom wave board....it was a great one. Hope this isn't true, he has made a huge contribution to windsurfing and kitesurfing - all the time with quality products.


Top
Profile
 Post subject: Re: Health of Kite Industry?
PostPosted: Tue Oct 30, 2012 9:27 pm 
Offline
Medium Poster
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jun 24, 2005 9:44 pm
Posts: 174
Location: New Zealand - owner of HellBoardriders.com
Spleene have removed all kites from their web site, just doing boards by the look of it.

Underground went under, the previous owner is setting up as Axis. But I'm not sure if that is what you are referring to about them trying to start up again.
Underground is a very strong brand name so I'm sure someone would pick the name up given the chance.

ROYAL Kiteboarding (aka RYL) went broke and was big topic on this forum, as they set right back up again like nothing happened. Just closed the trading company name and opened another, using the same brand name. Saying the money paid to company #1 was not the problem of company #2... still the brand run by Simone Vanucci.
These guys never delivered the paid for kites out to their importers/dealers. In fact they put huge pressure on the guys who had paid up front to order again from company #2. Saying they would get cheaper kites to be able to trade out & make up for the money they lost on the un delivered ones. So long as they kept off the forums!
WTF? Dirty tactics for sure. Imagine you just lost all the money you pad for 20 kites and then got told to buy another 40 at a discount so you could sell them to make up for the 20 you are never gong to get.

THE CRASH
The first spate of business troubles for the industry really kicked off in 2008 as the factories who had been providing credit to brands had to stop lending, the money dried up.
This meant brands who were spending up large on marketing or selling cheap got caught with bad cashflow and as the banking industry suddenly stopped lending they couldn't borrow from other sources. If the money stops moving so does the stock.
Caused a snowball effect for all industries.

Now we have long term global recession. So the business model now must change to accept this.
Small brands are more manoeuvrable and can adapt quicker to this.
But the big brands have deep pockets and control the media.

Interesting times indeed.
I think new Micro brands will fill the void of the medium brands, and the mega brands will stay at the top. We might see a lot more creativity come out of this. Both in terms of business models and also in terms of equipment design.


Top
Profile
 Post subject: Re: Health of Kite Industry?
PostPosted: Tue Oct 30, 2012 9:34 pm 
Offline
Frequent Poster
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jul 09, 2009 7:24 pm
Posts: 386
eightsmileys wrote:
We all know the Liquid Force, Cabrinha (they used to, i have not seen one of their latest kites), North maybe are the only brands that really use high end materials and a clever construction...i have repaired many kites and these are the brands i would say have very good quality and construction...and Naish although they are very heavily build = no low end! Lighter kites have better low end so it is a balance between weight vs quality.



Wow. it amazes me how little you know about kite design and build quality for someone who owned and operated a kite repair business. Heavy does not necessarily = no low end. Clearly you have never flown an old C kite.

Liquid force makes cheap kites and it looks almost like they are getting out of the business too. 2013 lineup looks like old designs with different graphics. Its pretty clear the Envy is the only kite they can actually make money on. The NRG is a desperate attempt to break into the racing scene and the Hifi X looks like they went back to the old hifi design because of how badly the Nirvana flopped. There lineup has been slowly shrinking over the years. starting with dropping the session then the Havoc. I was sad to see the havoc go. It was a great kite and ranked highly by SBC but apparently it competed too much with the Envy so they axed the Havoc for the Envy.

I have been seeing Liquid Force dropped by dealer after dealer. The only shop around here that still sells them basically only keeps them around as a board producer and to use the Envy's as school kites. You could argue the reason for dropping them could have something to do with there screwed up parent company that has been suing the industry since the beginning of time.

Liquid force does not deserve to be in the same category as North or Cabrinha in terms of material selection, build quality or design. I think Naish and Liquid Force may be similar in terms of durability but Naish has one of the longest standing reputations in wind sports and notably better designs.


Top
Profile
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic
 [ 98 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 6, 7, 8, 9, 10  Next

All times are UTC + 1 hour


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: blu, jespin4845, Kaito and 18 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group