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 Post subject: Re: Flysurfer speed 12m vs 15m for low end?
PostPosted: Tue Oct 30, 2012 2:24 pm 
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You have very odd wind!

for starters in 10 knots I am happily plaining and jumping

in 29knots? are you MAD? no way dude.

TeabagVic wrote:
Do not buy the 15m !!!

Because of these 2 things you said:

*** I've only used LEI kites in the past and typically don't much enjoy any of them larger than 12m. ***

And

***(I am 70 kg/150lb)***

Also that you would use it with a surf board or a decent light wind twin tip.

In most place I prefer the 12m over the 15m obviously. I only prefer the 15m in lifty/lofty spots, there is one in my area. (I guess the cliff make the wind go upward and it is super fun with a big kite)

What I dont understand in Alexrider video is that he has the depower line depower at aproximately 40%-60%. At his weight, it is almost impossible that the wind is only 10 knots using all that depower. His jump would have been quite higher if he had remove the depower to power and edge more to hold more power.

Agree with the previous spot, there is 2 knots difference in regard to low end.

200 lbs, My 15m and Spleene Door and windmeter on the beach:

13 kts: Figthing to stay upwind, have to work kite
14 kts: Not fighting anymore, but not fun
15-16Kts: Same as 14kts but start little jumps
17-20 kts: Medium Jumps, might switch to smaller board
21-22 kts: Medium, almost big Jumps w door or small board (start using depower on Door)
23-26 kts: ~ Big jumps+, small board, use from 20%-60% depower. (I might switch to 12m)
27-29 kts: Big Jumps++, use 60%-90% depower. Will definitively switch to 12m Speed3 in most area. Might stay on the 15m if in that Lifty\Lofty wind spot and the wind/forecast is stable.

For your 150 lbs, I would remove aproximately 3-4 knots from above, but then I dont think that there could be any pull in the kite at 9-10 kts. (from my windmeter measurment, cold wind/temperature)

(P.S, I really, really enjoy riding overpower.)


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 Post subject: Re: Flysurfer speed 12m vs 15m for low end?
PostPosted: Tue Oct 30, 2012 3:50 pm 
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Location: PBKiteboarding.com Sales-Repair-Lessons Ozone, Aboards, Flysurfer, OR, Canada USA Worlwide
Here is 25+ knots or so at 155 12m is plenty... when many are on 9m Inflatables.
Riding Powered. Good floaty boosts. The Speeds have a great range.
But Now I can be on a smaller Speed 4 8m or 10m
to even jump higher on a smaller kite with less drift downwind.

Paul
www.PBKiteboarding.com



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 Post subject: Re: Flysurfer speed 12m vs 15m for low end?
PostPosted: Tue Oct 30, 2012 5:39 pm 
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in light winds, with a 130*40 twin-tip..70kg, speed 12 classic...from 11 knots to 25++

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d0z75Hwb6GE&list=UUZaLiDfi4Ah6i9gLXh0Yqkg&index=6&feature=plcp&noredirect=1


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 Post subject: Re: Flysurfer speed 12m vs 15m for low end?
PostPosted: Tue Oct 30, 2012 7:06 pm 
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TeabagVic wrote:
200 lbs, My 15m and Spleene Door and windmeter on the beach:

13 kts: Figthing to stay upwind, have to work kite
14 kts: Not fighting anymore, but not fun
15-16Kts: Same as 14kts but start little jumps
17-20 kts: Medium Jumps, might switch to smaller board
21-22 kts: Medium, almost big Jumps w door or small board (start using depower on Door)
23-26 kts: ~ Big jumps+, small board, use from 20%-60% depower. (I might switch to 12m)
27-29 kts: Big Jumps++, use 60%-90% depower. Will definitively switch to 12m Speed3 in most area. Might stay on the 15m if in that Lifty\Lofty wind spot and the wind/forecast is stable.


I am heavier than you (110kg + gear, which is about 240lbs I guess). 5m/s (about 10 knots) is not a problem for me and staying upwind with 15m DLX and normal Flyradical XL TT. With 12m DLX I start to go about 6m/s (12 knots). Downwind can be done in less wind.

Speed3 12m DLX will fly in no-wind with little added energy by you. Sometimes when you are snowkiting and inversion hits = wind drops to zero you can still work the kite for power with pulling&releasing the front-lines and small skate kicks if you are on skis. You can go home quite fast with this. And during inversion you can fly the kite 360 circles / wind window with little movement/line pulling. It will stay in the air but be carefull not to pull bar too much. But no enough power for liquid water thou :)


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 Post subject: Re: Flysurfer speed 12m vs 15m for low end?
PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2012 3:19 am 
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I guess we all have a different perception of wind strenght... Maybe some place there is almost no wind on the beach but a lot more on top, which make people believe that they are actually riding in less wind. Also, I see 9m-12m kite droping on the water / or rider come up the beach before wind dies completely while I am still riding on the 15m. When I come in I check the wind strenght and it is about 13kts, sometimes 12kts. Later on I see them logging a session somewhere else: 9m in 10kts-15kts..... Yeah right .... Some even think that they have been kiting in 8-12 kts with a 10m kite for example... (written in the log from local kiteboarding website).

Anyway here is a pic from 12-15kts gust (only reason I could ride was the 15kts gust), and 2 other ones while 28 kts gust 31kts and 29kts gust 31 kts. Same Speed3 15m. Was on the Spleene Door each time (it was too windy/risky to come back ashore to change board on that 29-31 kts and the 15m, but never had that much fun in my entire life)

Image

Image

Image


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 Post subject: Re: Flysurfer speed 12m vs 15m for low end?
PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2012 4:08 am 
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Location: PBKiteboarding.com Sales-Repair-Lessons Ozone, Aboards, Flysurfer, OR, Canada USA Worlwide
Nice Shots and Places... guys... for sure lots of fun!!..
Yeah I guess that why it helps to compare to other out there on different sizes and weights...
riding the same place and time... I know is the 15m is quite a bit more powerful than 12m.
When I feel I may not have enough for the 12m and too much for 21m. 15m is the go too.

Paul
www.PBKiteboarding.com


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 Post subject: Re: Flysurfer speed 12m vs 15m for low end?
PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2012 4:34 am 
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You might want to share more information about the typical lightwind days in your area. For example if you lived in a place like San Diego, CA with typically very light winds every day, I would tell you to buy the 15 for summer riding and seriously consider a 21. However, if you live in a location where the light days are 12 knots or better, I would recommend the 12. It also depends on how comfortable you are riding powered up. Some riders prefer to go downwind during lulls and use the gusts to get back upwind. Others prefer to stay even in the lulls and jump high in the gusts, so riding style does come into play when picking the proper size kite. Last of all, seek advice from a rider that approximates your weight. A 200 LB plus rider is going to have a completely different perspective on size and range.


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 Post subject: Re: Flysurfer speed 12m vs 15m for low end?
PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2012 4:57 am 
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Location: Japan
That looks like Spartan's stomping ground...! Nice flat water! :thumb:

Putting numbers on the wind range is pretty tough - handheld gauges don't cut it and none of our weather stations here seem that accurate. According to them, I can ride my 15 in 10knots... which is hard to believe. 15-20 knots is big fun zone, 20-25 is epic and anything more is nutty. If the gusts are punchy, it's not a lot of fun...

The low end of the 15 has certainly impressed me recently. The 12 is a lot less satisfying... but I weigh a lot more than the OP. And the wind on the lake here doesn't seem to have the oomph that the sea breezes do...


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 Post subject: Re: Flysurfer speed 12m vs 15m for low end?
PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2012 10:37 am 
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Haven't tried the 12. My 15 standard edition gets going from 8 knots. Once it gets going, it can be fun as well (jumps, rotations, spins etc.). Best wind for it for my taste is 10-12 knots. Above that I pump my Vegas :wink: , even though the FS can be ok up to 20+ knots. :bye:


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 Post subject: Re: Flysurfer speed 12m vs 15m for low end?
PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2012 11:20 am 
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Ned Divine wrote:
Haven't tried the 12. My 15 standard edition gets going from 8 knots. Once it gets going, it can be fun as well (jumps, rotations, spins etc.). Best wind for it for my taste is 10-12 knots. Above that I pump my Vegas :wink: , even though the FS can be ok up to 20+ knots. :bye:

The 12 is a hoot when it's on the boil - love riding it! but we rarely have the wind for it... I'd say that when it's in the zone, it's more aggressive and exciting than the 15. I enjoy being over-powered on the FSers so much more than the LEIs :D


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