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 Post subject: Re: Renegade "Infinity V2" light wind machine.
PostPosted: Sat Nov 10, 2012 8:54 pm 
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Posts: 2503
Don't believe everything you think ...nobody had doubts...nobody is shocked...actually the opposite

All of us who ride LW on a regular basis...know that all those videos are possible..
.....we have all done it in glassy no wind

A great LW kite...no doubt....suited for everyone out there..probably not

You will never really know...will you..if on that 4kn (estimated) V3 video afternoon...
.....all other LW kites in the world.......

......would have fallen out of the sky...and yours be the only one standing...and riding the SUP

So unless you produce a video surrounded by 3 other LW kites at the same time..
.....you are only proving essentially yours and your only....and that's ok...to a certain point

Fantastic performance without a doubt or shock...but to say #1 LW of all times..and of all brands...

....that is the part of your statement that makes us doubt your opinion...and is shocking

.... :congrats: :chorus: :happybirthday: :fans: :party1: :pump: :surf: :sun: :winner1: ......................


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 Post subject: Re: Renegade "Infinity V2" light wind machine.
PostPosted: Sat Nov 10, 2012 9:55 pm 
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Joined: Wed Oct 31, 2012 11:08 pm
Posts: 400
Location: Venice, Florida
SupaEZ, why do you continue to post? Granted, video evidence can never be clear proof. There are all kinds of ways to make something look like something other than it is, but if you owned a company, would you use all kinds of trickery to fool people into buying your product, only to have it not meet the customer's expectations? To do that would be foolish, because that person who bought your product would be posting all over this site the next day saying it did not live up to expectations.

If Dimitri was trying to make things look like something other that what it was, he would sell a couple kites to suckers, and this discussion would be filled full with bad reviews and people bitching about not being satisfied.

If Dimitri was representing things honestly, he would be selling many, and this discussion would be full of people who were satisfied with their purchases or were pleased after demoing one.

Based on those 2 scenarios, which one accurately describes reality?

You need to maybe take a step back from the podium where you preach about "special conditions" and "upwelling" and whatever other things you think contribute to the kite's apparent performance in the many different videos in many different places that have been provided. Why don't you go demo one and came back afterwards and see what you can bitch about?

I know this post doesn't carry much weight because I havent been around in this forum a long time, but I'm not a plant trying to talk up the product. I demoed a Screamer when Dimitri was in Tampa Florida, and I ended up buying one after trying a bunch of other kites. I was really pleased with the kite, and I'm trying to see when I can demo an Infinity to see what I think about it. I know my 16 Switchblade needs at least 12 knots to do anything other than mow the lawn and try to stay upwind (needs about 15-16 to jump), so I'm looking to see what my options are. I see a lot of videos shot in many places showing the Infinity doing it's thing, and it looks like the ticket.

Now what I do with myself while I'm waiting to demo one is the key. Am I going to look for flaws in the videos, grasp at obscure meteorologic conditions that could disprove them, and try to poke holes in what is being claimed, or do I wait until I demo it and say what I think about it?

I think I'll base my opinion on fact and experience, rather than conjecture.

Oh, I almost forgot. I have to add all kinds of emoticons. :roll: :lol: :P :D :thumb: :rollgrin:


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 Post subject: Re: Renegade "Infinity V2" light wind machine.
PostPosted: Sat Nov 10, 2012 11:17 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jan 24, 2003 1:00 am
Posts: 703
SupaEZ wrote:
Don't believe everything you think ...nobody had doubts...nobody is shocked...actually the opposite

All of us who ride LW on a regular basis...know that all those videos are possible..
.....we have all done it in glassy no wind

A great LW kite...no doubt....suited for everyone out there..probably not

You will never really know...will you..if on that 4kn (estimated) V3 video afternoon...
.....all other LW kites in the world.......

......would have fallen out of the sky...and yours be the only one standing...and riding the SUP

So unless you produce a video surrounded by 3 other LW kites at the same time..
.....you are only proving essentially yours and your only....and that's ok...to a certain point

Fantastic performance without a doubt or shock...but to say #1 LW of all times..and of all brands...

....that is the part of your statement that makes us doubt your opinion...and is shocking

.... :congrats: :chorus: :happybirthday: :fans: :party1: :pump: :surf: :sun: :winner1: ......................


Totally agree with SupaEZ. There are SO many bullshit claims by kite companies regarding light wind capabilities. NO kite will perform in < 7-8 knots. viewtopic.php?f=1&t=2372383&hilit=bullshit+claims

Continually posting videos or images of kites flying in glassy or conditions without whitecaps makes me think the posters are trying to hide something or deliberately trying to mislead.

The ONLY way to gauge the RELATIVE performance of kites in light winds is to fly them side-by-side, with similarly experienced riders and similar boards.

I've been suggesting a "light-wind showdown" amongst the biggest claimers (Flysurfer, Epic) and others (North, Core, Slingshot, etc) for years - but no takers.

In addition, the marginal nature of light wind kiting makes assessing water relaunch and significant self-rescue important for weekend warriors.


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 Post subject: Re: Renegade "Infinity V2" light wind machine.
PostPosted: Sat Nov 10, 2012 11:49 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jun 28, 2010 6:58 pm
Posts: 631
Pump me up wrote:
NO kite will perform in < 7-8 knots. viewtopic.php?f=1&t=2372383&hilit=bullshit+claims

i´ve saw the topic and as you said
Pump me up wrote:
"consistently staying upwind (20 mins+) on standard kiteboarding gear (twin tips, surfboards, race boards etc)".

the guy is in a SUP, not really in a standard kiteboarding gear.....

not that i disagree that relative performance is to fly whatever kites side-by-side.

still impressive video


Last edited by Tiago1973 on Sat Nov 10, 2012 11:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Renegade "Infinity V2" light wind machine.
PostPosted: Sat Nov 10, 2012 11:50 pm 
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Joined: Sun Nov 03, 2002 1:00 am
Posts: 3947
Location: OUTER BANKS (NC) USA. Owner of EPICKITES
Quote:
Continually posting videos or images of kites flying in glassy or conditions without whitecaps makes me think the posters are trying to hide something or deliberately trying to mislead.
The ONLY way to gauge the RELATIVE performance of kites in light winds is to fly them side-by-side, with similarly experienced riders and similar boards.
I've been suggesting a "light-wind showdown" amongst the biggest claimers (Flysurfer, Epic) and others (North, Core, Slingshot, etc) for years - but no takers.
In addition, the marginal nature of light wind kiting makes assessing water relaunch and significant self-rescue important for weekend warriors.

Oh yea.... Mr. Pump me up, I am ready for a "LIGHT WIND SHOW DOWN". I am the owner of EPIC kites and I do approve this message and as always, stands behind my product 100%. I don't see any one else doing that!!!!
Why would I make this up!!!! If a product doesn't work I would not even introduce it to the market or share it with all the kiters around the world because it will back fire and this is not what me and EPIC are all about. Again if you don't beleive in the videos and testimonials that you saw then no worries. But if you get a chance, please demo the INFINITY v2 and the prototype V3 so you get a better idea of what this kite is all about. I know you will be very impressed about its performance. There are few people on this FORUM that use to be like you and did not beleive in the performance, the testimonials or the videos, until one day they did finally test it. And now they are not even posting anything on this topic because they know they were wrong about the negativity they were saying about the INFINITY v2.
Once again I have nothing to hide and all these videos are made by using (IMovie HD for editing) this is not HOLLYWOOD.
And if I was lying we would not be sold out of INFINITY v2 (no worries we have a new order of v2 coming in by the end of next week.).


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 Post subject: Re: Renegade "Infinity V2" light wind machine.
PostPosted: Sun Nov 11, 2012 12:43 am 
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Joined: Fri Jan 24, 2003 1:00 am
Posts: 703
Dimitri M wrote:
Quote:
Continually posting videos or images of kites flying in glassy or conditions without whitecaps makes me think the posters are trying to hide something or deliberately trying to mislead.
The ONLY way to gauge the RELATIVE performance of kites in light winds is to fly them side-by-side, with similarly experienced riders and similar boards.
I've been suggesting a "light-wind showdown" amongst the biggest claimers (Flysurfer, Epic) and others (North, Core, Slingshot, etc) for years - but no takers.
In addition, the marginal nature of light wind kiting makes assessing water relaunch and significant self-rescue important for weekend warriors.

Oh yea.... Mr. Pump me up, I am ready for a "LIGHT WIND SHOW DOWN". I am the owner of EPIC kites and I do approve this message and as always, stands behind my product 100%. I don't see any one else doing that!!!!
Why would I make this up!!!! If a product doesn't work I would not even introduce it to the market or share it with all the kiters around the world because it will back fire and this is not what me and EPIC are all about. Again if you don't beleive in the videos and testimonials that you saw then no worries. But if you get a chance, please demo the INFINITY v2 and the prototype V3 so you get a better idea of what this kite is all about. I know you will be very impressed about its performance. There are few people on this FORUM that use to be like you and did not beleive in the performance, the testimonials or the videos, until one day they did finally test it. And now they are not even posting anything on this topic because they know they were wrong about the negativity they were saying about the INFINITY v2.
Once again I have nothing to hide and all these videos are made by using (IMovie HD for editing) this is not HOLLYWOOD.
And if I was lying we would not be sold out of INFINITY v2 (no worries we have a new order of v2 coming in by the end of next week.).


Enough claiming Dimitri. Objective testing of previous iterations of the "Infinity" showed it was inferior to other kites in very light winds, despite your propaganda: http://www.thekiteboarder.com/2011/05/e ... te-review/

Why should we believe you this time??

Many reports indicate that there are better light wind kites than the Infinity (e.g. Dyno, eg Flysurfer [despite its problems]).

YOU are the one with a vested interest in proving your kite's light wind credentials: It is in your best interests to organise a credible test of relative light wind capabilities.

Otherwise, you're just blowing hot air.

Pumpy


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 Post subject: Re: Renegade "Infinity V2" light wind machine.
PostPosted: Sun Nov 11, 2012 12:52 am 
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Joined: Tue Jul 31, 2007 9:58 pm
Posts: 788
Location: the netherlands / Epic Affiliated
Some people can bitch all they want. I seen the video got confermation from some people that were actually there and said it was for real.

If people want to believe its 15 knots in the video with that reflection in the water. Please be my guest enjoy your stay in LaLa land.
The video is what it is.. its cleary incredible light wind. The kite stays up there in almost no wind... thats impressive to me.


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 Post subject: Re: Renegade "Infinity V2" light wind machine.
PostPosted: Sun Nov 11, 2012 12:53 am 
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Joined: Sun Jun 12, 2011 12:47 pm
Posts: 2503
Hey Flight Time....how are you today?

I believe that Dimitri never uses trickery or deceit....he is honest..and all we see is true

I believe that "his" demo/video Pamlico sound waters are the most favorable there is in the USA

Dimitri knows wind...i know wind...and when you reach that level of experience...
...you just know how to pick your battles....and which type of LW will work..yes..there are many types

Zero tricks..no gimmicks from Dimitri...all truth in what we all see..
We have all heard of the saying.....location location...well there is also conditions conditions in LW

Certain light wind directions from the mainland...with very very long fetch over smooth water..
....exiting to sea after only encountering a very thin barrier island

Nothing can be proven better for gradient wind perfection

I have no doubt about him as an honest individual...i do enjoy going on his post...and bumping it

And now what you have been waiting for..........some "smilies" in action

:jump: :bye: :thumb: :remybussi: :rollgrin: :clap: :dance: :cooltext: :love1: :snow: :party: :surf:


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 Post subject: Re: Renegade "Infinity V2" light wind machine.
PostPosted: Sun Nov 11, 2012 1:11 am 
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Joined: Wed Oct 31, 2012 11:08 pm
Posts: 400
Location: Venice, Florida
How is that a negative review, Pump? They liked the kite. Put it against a 62 meter foil kite, that turns like a dinosaur and call it a fair test? Their best guess put the Infinity V1 at about 15 meters. I have a 16 meter Cabrinha kite that wont even stay in the air at 8 knots, and if I tried to loop it, it would go down but not recover and backstall at the end of the loop.

I'd like to see an objective test of the Infinity side by side with reviews by experienced riders who fly all the kites consecutively and give unbiased reviews. Apparently, Dimitri wants this too. Realistically, how are you going to get reps from each company to all meet on one day, in one place, on the assumption that it's not going to be blowing 30 knots? One of the magazines should step up to the plate and collect demo models of all the litewind kites and test them for a week and give in depth reviews. But realistically, I'd rather put it in the hands of 5 randomly chosen mediocre riders, because magazines get paid to advertize for companies, and if you were getting big money to advertize Flysurfer, would it bias your review of other kites? Um... bet your ass it would. A bunch of half assed unaffiliated regular joes who don't own any of the kites they are testing would be the best test.

I'm patiently waiting my chance to demo the kite, because spouting my mouth off about the performance of a kite I have not flown is absolute horseshit. That is the shining example of "blowing hot air".


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 Post subject: Re: Renegade "Infinity V2" light wind machine.
PostPosted: Sun Nov 11, 2012 1:16 am 
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Joined: Wed Oct 31, 2012 11:08 pm
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Location: Venice, Florida
Quote:
Certain light wind directions from the mainland...with very very long fetch over smooth water..
....exiting to sea after only encountering a very thin barrier island


We going to test them in offshore winds being chopped up by skyscrapers? We have seen it flown in surf, we have seen it in clean air, what is left? Would you fly a light wind kite in gusty wind that has a short fetch? I wouldn't.

Demo the kite, then talk wind.


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