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 Post subject: Re: Who else is pssed at buying wonky kites?
PostPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2012 12:08 pm 
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I had a wonky 2005 Slingshot fuel 9m.
Also owned a Rhino2,Torch, Mach5, Tribal, Impact, Bandit 2/3/4/5/6

Never had any wonky kites from Naish and Fone, probably wouldn't have noticed if my Rhino2 was wonky .


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 Post subject: Re: Who else is pssed at buying wonky kites?
PostPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2012 1:56 pm 
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The kind of wonk factor I've experienced would mean that if you put the kite at 11 and let go of the bar (as long as the wind isn't super light) the kite will come over to 3. You'd expect it to Go to 9 (my experience has been on C kites)

Now you can shorted lines to try to counter this but in my experience this only works in light wind and just makes the kite fly slightly sideways to what it should. U still however get problems when pulling the kite about for jumps etc it will turn much faster one way than the other, and drift over when u don't want it too.

Also, The last 2 kites I had with this problem started out with a small problem. I immediately shortened relevent lines and tried to ignore it. BUT, the problem got worse and I assume this is because the kite will stretch in an unsymmetrical fashion due to the underlying skewdness, and make it worse?

Last thing I'd mention is that I'm a fatty and weigh over 100kg and unless I've got confused with my physics the pressure on the kite is going to be more than normal on the material. I've got a bee in my bonnet about kites not being properly tested for big guys! Leashes/clips breaking etc...

I'll keep buying kites cause I love it, and from now If I buy one with even a small problem I'll take it back as sure it get's worse. Yes I think they are expensive but wouldn't pay more so if better quality control or effort goes in to ensuring the kites fly straight means it costs hundreds more I don't think I'd like that.

What an effing waffle I'll shut it now


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 Post subject: Re: Who else is pssed at buying wonky kites?
PostPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2012 8:31 pm 
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I like your post gingerfinger.

But if your kite turns like that, with fully slack rearlines, it is REALLY wonky IMO :o

Even if your frontlines are not the same length - the kite will not turn/drift at all, with bar pushed out (slack rearlines).

So definitely something wrong if it turns a lot, only on the frontlines.
If it just drifts slowly - well, thats fine.

I am talking about the rear lines though - even if you got all 4 lines matched up perfectly in length - you will more often than not, experience that you need just a tad of difference on the rear line length - in order to fly the kite perfectly straight with tight rearlines :thumb:

Thats just how it is, and the tolerances are like that - I dont think you can ever change that, in our "low priced" category, without much or any selection :rollgrin:

:D Peter


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 Post subject: Re: Who else is pssed at buying wonky kites?
PostPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2012 9:43 pm 
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Here is a Rogallo-wing analogy that definitely correlates to our water kites :

I got a rag-wing with a left hand turn , so i tighten the left wing a bit on the frame
to speed up the left wing. The Left hand turn is now gone at minimum sink,but it
will drop the left tip in forward flight into the wind as the glider stalls. That happened because
when i tightened the left wing on the frame, i also dropped the camper a tad on that
same wing so it doesn't create as much lift. As soon as i speed up to best L/D, the
kite now turns to the right.
Basically i just Cross-tuned my kite.

OK-- so lets try to get rid of that same left turn by flattening the camber of the
airfoil near the tip of the left wing, instead of tightening the sail on the frame. we do
this by bending the aluminum batten at the high point of the camber out on the last two
tip battens.
Anyone care to guess what will happen next ?

Creating a symmetrical lifting airfoil on a kite that was sewn Perfect , is NOT easy !!!
You should see Why sewing the camber correct and the same on both wings is so
important.

Sometimes when i tighten a top-line to tune a kite , it will not turn the same at
low speeds as it does at High speeds ; kinda like the cross-tuned Rag-wing. This
is when i "Wish" i had a bendable batten on both of my wing, about a foot or two
inboard,so i could adjust the camber !!

There Is a way to do that without the use of a batten :
a guy could make the last two panels of a kite so that the camber distribution
could be adjusted. Perhaps it could be done with lacing that could be covered
with a Velcro cloth faring ; you'd only need one near each wing-tip.
Yep-- we do this at the root of a HG already, where the two wing halves meet.

Bille


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 Post subject: Re: Who else is pssed at buying wonky kites?
PostPosted: Thu Nov 22, 2012 7:38 am 
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Quote:
There Is a way to do that without the use of a batten :
a guy could make the last two panels of a kite so that the camber distribution
could be adjusted. Perhaps it could be done with lacing that could be covered
with a Velcro cloth faring ; you'd only need one near each wing-tip.
Yep-- we do this at the root of a HG already, where the two wing halves meet.

Adjustable camber on a kite? that would be fun, I could see it being used in racing to fine-tune your rig.


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 Post subject: Re: Who else is pssed at buying wonky kites?
PostPosted: Thu Nov 22, 2012 12:14 pm 
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Ivel wrote:
Quote:
There Is a way to do that without the use of a batten :
a guy could make the last two panels of a kite so that the camber distribution
could be adjusted. Perhaps it could be done with lacing that could be covered
with a Velcro cloth faring ; you'd only need one near each wing-tip.
Yep-- we do this at the root of a HG already, where the two wing halves meet.

Adjustable camber on a kite? that would be fun, I could see it being used in racing to fine-tune your rig.


Yes.

I have flown a kite a couple of times, the Windtools Booster, back in 2002/3 (I think it came in 2001), where you could adjust the camber of the kite by adjusting the batten tension - quite clever :naughty:

http://www.oase.com/ubb/Forum2/HTML/000529.html

It had no struts in regular sense, simply flat battens where you could adjust the tension, thus the camber :

Image

Did not get very popular really, eventhough it worked fine - maybe too tricky back in those days, where kitesurf was "new".


On windsurfers, we have/had a trimline so could adjust and change the camber (outhaul), while sailing 8)
But as discovered later, it was the downhall that was the most important with newer sails, as it will make the top of the sail twist (besides reducing the camber) and able to spill air, when tight - and more cambered and less twisting when loose, for light wind :naughty:

:D Peter


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 Post subject: Re: Who else is pssed at buying wonky kites?
PostPosted: Thu Nov 22, 2012 1:46 pm 
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Tuning? No thanks. One of the best reasons to switch to kiteboarding!

Kites: take em out when they are new and fly em to get everything tuned, then forget it... pretty much for the lifetime of the kite! Doesn't matter if its windy or light, you rig the kite exactly the same with the possible exception of attaching your rear lines to one of a couple knots.

Gone are the days of eyeballing your sail, comming in to change the tension, always wondering if you should tune for the gusts or the lulls.

Thank god thats over. Kites are so wicked awesome these days. I cover 13-40 knots with two of em...... That would take a truck full of windsurfing sails.

So much nicer to not have to fiddle with settings each and every time you rig.

Plug and play is already working..... provided your kite is build accurately and doesn't pull like crazy to one side. Ive had one kite out of about 18 kites that was actually sewn poorly enough to pull to one side. Its was actually visibly crooked in the leading edge. Other than those few wonky ones, people pull kites wonky all the time with unilateral jumping and looping.

I would deffinitely go for warranty on a truly crooked kite, but so far they are few and far between.


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 Post subject: Re: Who else is pssed at buying wonky kites?
PostPosted: Thu Nov 22, 2012 2:31 pm 
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Brent4336 wrote:

Thank god thats over. Kites are so wicked awesome these days. I cover 13-40 knots with two of em...... That would take a truck full of windsurfing sails.



Well, if by a "truck full" you mean two, then I agree with you. That's a pretty small truck though.

Windsurf sails ain't what they used to be. But in fairness, even back in the day, I still covered that range adequately with three (3.5, 5.0, 6.5) and the right boards.

Sounds a lot like another sport I've tried a couple of times..... :P


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 Post subject: Re: Who else is pssed at buying wonky kites?
PostPosted: Thu Nov 22, 2012 2:46 pm 
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There is not a windsurfing sail out there that can match the range of a 9/10m kite. 15-30 knots is frickin amazing. A 6.5 is lame in 15, I pass em all the time! and way too big in 25. A 5.0 wont feel like any fun until 20 and is backwinding you in the face in 30. A 3.5 comes out of the bag three times a year and you get rolled around in the shorebreak with it until near exhaustion, but whatever.

Most self respecting windsurfers with half the yearly session that I get on two kites will carry a quiver of 4-5 sail quiver requiring two booms and two masts. Then they go the extra mile to be able to rig two set ups at the same time,cause the wind might drop by two knots and they have to come in and switch.... so they have two uni joints. etc, etc, etc,

They carry a quiver of fins, and the boards are in the 70-120L range........ Yeah, thats a small truckload of gear when you compare it to a wakebaord, a surfboard, two kites and a wetsuit.

No roof rack required!

My point was.... no tuning please. Keep that for the hanglider crew!

Sorry for pulling this tread to one side!


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 Post subject: Re: Who else is pssed at buying wonky kites?
PostPosted: Thu Nov 22, 2012 2:53 pm 
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Not sure you're up to date the range of sails now....its stupendous compared to what it was.

And speak for yourself.....I grew up sailing in a place where it gusts over 30 kts 270 days per year. The 3.5 was in constant use. The 6.5 North Race sale on a custom 9'6" expoxy race board was not, trust me, slow.

But yes, even back then there were old tools turning up with vans full of sails, boards, booms etc. They were almost always the biggest kooks at the beach. And then the sport died....


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