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 Post subject: Re: 8 years kiting and I was so wrong about boards
PostPosted: Mon Dec 24, 2012 9:33 pm 
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My ordinary tt is awesome.

Makos mako wood clones and noodle flexy boards are good if you have to ride shitty chop but that's just a way to make a bad kiting spot bare able. Find a good wave or flatwater spot and every board will feel amazing


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 Post subject: Re: 8 years kiting and I was so wrong about boards
PostPosted: Tue Dec 25, 2012 1:05 am 
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C Johnson wrote:
Find a good wave or flatwater spot ....



What you´re saying is insane .... it is like saying : why bother with ( big or small ) kites , find a 25 knots constant wind spot and you only need a 9 meter kite ...

Can someone please tell me how many " ideal " spots like C Johnson is suggesting exists around the European continent or even better ; in the entire world ???????

Wow , now I have it all clear !!! its not the quiver ... we have been kiting at the wrong spot

:rollgrin:

Oh Gosh ....


Regards


Franz


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 Post subject: Re: 8 years kiting and I was so wrong about boards
PostPosted: Tue Dec 25, 2012 3:16 am 
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panchito wrote:
C Johnson wrote:
Find a good wave or flatwater spot ....



What you´re saying is insane .... it is like saying : why bother with ( big or small ) kites , find a 25 knots constant wind spot and you only need a 9 meter kite ...

Can someone please tell me how many " ideal " spots like C Johnson is suggesting exists around the European continent or even better ; in the entire world ???????

Wow , now I have it all clear !!! its not the quiver ... we have been kiting at the wrong spot

:rollgrin:

Oh Gosh ....


Regards


Franz


Wave pools and cable parks. Wave is all ways the same. Cable pulls the same and the water is all ways flat? Whats the problem with finding a perfect spot?


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 Post subject: Re: 8 years kiting and I was so wrong about boards
PostPosted: Tue Dec 25, 2012 7:30 am 
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panchito wrote:
C Johnson wrote:
Find a good wave or flatwater spot ....



What you´re saying is insane .... it is like saying : why bother with ( big or small ) kites , find a 25 knots constant wind spot and you only need a 9 meter kite ...

Can someone please tell me how many " ideal " spots like C Johnson is suggesting exists around the European continent or even better ; in the entire world ???????

Wow , now I have it all clear !!! its not the quiver ... we have been kiting at the wrong spot

:rollgrin:

Oh Gosh ....


Regards


Franz


Hahaha! :lol: :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: 8 years kiting and I was so wrong about boards
PostPosted: Wed Dec 26, 2012 12:53 am 
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Here is why I totally disagree with the OP. 85% of riding a board lies in the skill of the rider. Too many times I see riders with the completely wrong board strapped to their feet based on the conditions. I can't count how many times each session I see guys pulling out the wrong board. And mostly because it was a board they either started with or simply became comfortable with and have just "made it work" as their go to board.

I have literally kited every board made...or at least try to...in every condition possible. I only have 2 boards and 1 in particular I use in nearly every condition of kiting. And it works exceptionally well because it is an excellent all around board. Just the right amount of rocker, flex, stiffness, and is incredibly light weight. But then again I am a very kinesthetic kiter.

Sorry guys...as much as we would all like to say gear makes a better kiter the truth is the advancement of our ability to adapt is what actually makes us better kiters. If you get stuck riding one specific way based on your mental limitation according to what you think the limits of your gear are then you will never become a better kiter.

Once you as a kiter advance to this mind set you will then begin to notice the minute differences between gear and the better you will be able to exploit those differences.

One more thing about spray. If you are getting spray from the front of your board it means you are placing too much weight on your forward foot. Spray primarily occurs when you are edging and a wave or the water simply hits the outside of your posterior calf and shoots up at an angle towards your face. Riding in chop...especially heavy chop its almost impossible to avoid spray...unless you kite like Mrs. Daisy and creep along. Seriously...you can ride nearly any board without getting spray in your face if you learn to ride it properly. Sorry to offend anyone with this post but its true.


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 Post subject: Re: 8 years kiting and I was so wrong about boards
PostPosted: Wed Dec 26, 2012 4:31 am 
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Kiteus Maximus wrote:
..Riding in chop...especially heavy chop its almost impossible to avoid spray...unless you kite like Mrs. Daisy and creep along. Seriously...you can ride nearly any board without getting spray in your face if you learn to ride it properly. Sorry to offend anyone with this post but its true.


True.

I kept an open mind reading through this post, but it seems to me that if that makolike board is heavy (and it looks heavy) that that can't be a good thing. When I'm shopping for a board am looking for something that's not going to destroy my knees and ankles and weight is important because of the associated forces acting on your body (good and bad).

What does strike me however and thanks for raising this thread, is that board building is hardly scientific these days, I'm sure budgets are grossely overallocated elsewhere. The other day I caught a discussion on fakebook from a popular kitemaker asking the 'friends' what board dimensions should be built this year (and the ratios seemed off). This is a scientific process that requires testing under the appropriate range of conditions and not a decision to be made by friends based on what they might buy (oh wait, maby that's the point). I then started wondering about their kite design and testing process. I rest my case.

At the end of the day, all the seasoned riders on here should be able to reach consensus on what are your top 1-3-5-10 boards and why (and I suspect there are other threads dedicated to this on here). Peace out.


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 Post subject: Re: 8 years kiting and I was so wrong about boards
PostPosted: Wed Dec 26, 2012 7:16 am 
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Kiteus Maximus wrote:
85% of riding a board lies in the skill of the rider.

So far I agree with you ...

Quote:
I can't count how many times each session I see guys pulling out the wrong board. And mostly because it was a board they either started with or simply became comfortable with and have just "made it work" as their go to board.

True but you fail to mention the reason why .... it´s mainly because most people want to " look " like a pro even thought they can´t hardly stay upwind but, if the rest uses a pro board ( mostly a freestyle board ) < insert your preferred local brand > they will do it and believe , with a great board I´m going to be a great kiter type of thinking .

Quote:
I have literally kited every board made...or at least try to

I have a hard time believing this ( don´t take me wrong ) but to build up your mind about any gear you can´t simply try it out for 10 minutes and it took me 4 sessions just to try out the Nobile range of boards which means ..... you´ll spend probably 100 sessions each year trying boards ?? and when do you actually get the time to ride your own stuff ?

Quote:
Sorry guys...as much as we would all like to say gear makes a better kiter the truth is the advancement of our ability to adapt is what actually makes us better kiters. If you get stuck riding one specific way based on your mental limitation according to what you think the limits of your gear are then you will never become a better kiter.

Really ???

Let me tell you a story about ( as mentioned in this post over and over ) the Nobile boards .... it happend to be back then in early 2005 when the first came out , it was literally a carbon copy of the very popular North Jaime pro and one of my kite buddy´s ride them since them . Every time I tested the latest & greatest board I hated it simply because it sprayed like crazy into my face and I can´t stand that ( most of the riders I know suffer the same problem ) but then again , one day I was riding together with my buddy and found out that for whatever the reason , he got far less spray into his face comparing to me and asked him to give another try to his 666 ... well it came out that if I move my body further to the back adding more pressure to the back foot the spray almost stopped but ....

Here comes the interesting thing about that experience .....

I had to adjust my riding style to that particular board and after 10 minutes it felt so badly uncomfortable to me that I started to get back pain ...

SO .... what you say is : the entire f**** kiting industry has been doing it wrong all these years , they should make one kite and one board and force the people to get used to it.

The equipment I buy should fit my riding style and NOT THE OTHER WAY AROUND .

Why spend usd 800.- on any board , go to your next wood store , get a piece of plywood , cut some edges and screw some straps and with some kinesthetic thinking that board will perform as good as ..... no rocker , no flex , no nothing ..... it´s not the board folks , it´s your riding style which is wrong ....

Quote:
Riding in chop...especially heavy chop its almost impossible to avoid spray..

Well , that´s the freaking part ...... that woody sprays nada , zero , nothing , nichts in really heavy chop like we are used to here in Tarifa .

Quote:
Sorry to offend anyone with this post but its true.

True to you or true to the rest of us ? You should better use some of your kinesthetic thinking and open a bit your mind ...


----------------------


polarstorm wrote:

I kept an open mind reading through this post, but it seems to me that if that makolike board is heavy (and it looks heavy) that that can't be a good thing.

The woody is less than a half kilo heavier comparing the rest of my boards , 3-400 grams more ? As I said , I don't have a digital scale but the difference is barely noticeable

Quote:
When I'm shopping for a board am looking for something that's not going to destroy my knees and ankles and weight is important because of the associated forces acting on your body (good and bad).

I did mentioned that I had the effortless and most comfortable 2 hours session ( both for my back and knees ) in 800 ( with an average of 120-140 sessions per year ) since I started ....

Regards


Franz


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 Post subject: Re: 8 years kiting and I was so wrong about boards
PostPosted: Wed Dec 26, 2012 9:00 am 
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panchito wrote:
SO .... what you say is : the entire f**** kiting industry has been doing it wrong all these years , they should make one kite and one board and force the people to get used to it.

The equipment I buy should fit my riding style and NOT THE OTHER WAY AROUND .


No...that's not what I am saying. I said that 85% is the kiter and 15% is the equipment. The kiting industry does make board specifications for very specific results. However, they do not all make the same boards with the same results. Therefore you do have to adapt to some degree in order to get the desired results. Wake, surf, freestyle, light wind, etc...

Some of the specifics you were talking about like spray is purely rider inefficiency. I'm not saying you are an inefficient rider...just that in general I hear people talk about board attributes that I disagree with and consider them more marketing hype versus fact. I can kite in nearly any condition without getting spray in my face because I understand the mechanics of how spray occurs. However, as I said earlier that if a kiter is in heavy chop...chances are you are gonna' get spray regardless of the board you are on. Like I said...most spray occurs from the water hitting the outside of your forward calf. Think about it. Your forward leg is at an angle so that when water hits it...it will deflect water directly towards your face.

I know guys with 8 kite boards yet they always kite the same style and the same conditions. So does this mean they have 8 variations of 1 style or perhaps they simply are inefficient kiters? Imagine a golfer who has 8 different 9 irons in his bag.

At some point you gotta' realize it's not the equipment...it's the rider. Dial in becoming a more attuned kiter and you get more out of the gear you have.

And no...I did not literally try every board on the market but I have ridden all of the name brand boards. Maybe not every single size in every model...but the more frequently hyped boards I definitely have ridden and ridden for more than 10 minutes. I definitely put any equipment through its paces and I am always objective about any personal views I have.


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 Post subject: Re: 8 years kiting and I was so wrong about boards
PostPosted: Wed Dec 26, 2012 10:09 am 
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Kiteus Maximus wrote:
spray is purely rider inefficiency. I'm not saying you are an inefficient rider.


:think:

Have you ever thought that there " could " be other factors that influence on what you call " efficiency " ?

Like weight of the rider ,body high or even most important the type of harness your are wearing ?

Uhh. and don´t forget : wind conditions . It is not the same kiting with 10 , 25 or 40 Knots ....

Not to mention the type of kite ... Lower AR , Mid or high AR , Deltas . Hybrids , or whatever , low bar pressure or heavy bar pressure , some kites pull like hell on the harness , some other not a all

Etc etc etc etc etc and so on

AT the end , it looks like no one understands my actual " point " about this hole topic .....

Riding on that particular board , in my 2 sessions so far has proven that it has nothing , nothing to do with our understanding on how a " TT " is ridden.

If you get the chance to try one out and THEN you come to the conclusion that I´m wrong , you´re welcome to say it so

Until then ......


Regards


Franz


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 Post subject: Re: 8 years kiting and I was so wrong about boards
PostPosted: Wed Dec 26, 2012 12:14 pm 
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panchito wrote:
Kiteus Maximus wrote:
spray is purely rider inefficiency. I'm not saying you are an inefficient rider.

:think:
Have you ever thought that there " could " be other factors that influence on what you call " efficiency " ?
....
AT the end , it looks like no one understands my actual " point " about this hole topic .....
......
Regards
Franz

Hi pal,
I, at least, understand and :thumb: :thumb: :thumb: your original post as well as your comments that followed. There has just been too many comments by guys who haven't actually tried the Mako Wide. Or when they have, not long enough. Their opinion is uneducated.
The absence of spray of Makos is a fact and can be easily explained (rounded outline combined with central fins). Its concept allows them to be ridden more efficiently without tiring, with more even balanced pressure on both feet.
There is one comment which sums up the misconceptions people have with the strange looking board (did you notice the how everyone is wary of gear not coming from the common mould - such as foil kites?) "I kept an open mind reading through this post, but it seems to me that if that makolike board is heavy (and it looks heavy) that that can't be a good thing. When I'm shopping for a board am looking for something that's not going to destroy my knees and ankles and weight is important because of the associated forces acting on your body (good and bad).". How about that for keeping an open mind? :lol: :lol: :lol:. The Mako is the sweetest board on knees and ankles. It eats chop like no other. Weight, btw, makes boards less less bouncy.
BTW, the argument on spray being a just result of rider inefficiency is silly. How do you avoid spray with standard TTs? You press harder on the back foot in order to prevent the front fin to plough in the water; hardly efficient riding.


Last edited by alexrider on Thu Dec 27, 2012 2:29 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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