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8 years kiting and I was so wrong about boards

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jumarcil
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Re: 8 years kiting and I was so wrong about boards

Postby jumarcil » Wed Dec 26, 2012 3:12 pm

Kiteus Maximus wrote:
No...that's not what I am saying. I said that 85% is the kiter and 15% is the equipment. The kiting industry does make board specifications for very specific results. However, they do not all make the same boards with the same results. Therefore you do have to adapt to some degree in order to get the desired results. Wake, surf, freestyle, light wind, etc...

Some of the specifics you were talking about like spray is purely rider inefficiency. I'm not saying you are an inefficient rider...just that in general I hear people talk about board attributes that I disagree with and consider them more marketing hype versus fact. I can kite in nearly any condition without getting spray in my face because I understand the mechanics of how spray occurs. However, as I said earlier that if a kiter is in heavy chop...chances are you are gonna' get spray regardless of the board you are on. Like I said...most spray occurs from the water hitting the outside of your forward calf. Think about it. Your forward leg is at an angle so that when water hits it...it will deflect water directly towards your face.

I know guys with 8 kite boards yet they always kite the same style and the same conditions. So does this mean they have 8 variations of 1 style or perhaps they simply are inefficient kiters? Imagine a golfer who has 8 different 9 irons in his bag.

At some point you gotta' realize it's not the equipment...it's the rider. Dial in becoming a more attuned kiter and you get more out of the gear you have.


Are you telling us that every boards are equal in the chop ??? it is just a question of understanding the mechanic of how spray occurs ... and then a question of adapting your riding...

Poor us inefficient riders that endured all that spray yet it was so simple to avoid... :wink:

some boards are way better when performing in the chop than others; and if you have to "adapt" your way of riding in the chop not to get spray in the face wouldn't you be better in the first place to get a board that doesn't spray you in the face if chop is what you ride most of the time ???

Why not get gear adapted to your type of riding in the first place ?

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polarstorm
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Re: 8 years kiting and I was so wrong about boards

Postby polarstorm » Wed Dec 26, 2012 6:16 pm

Kiteus Maximus wrote:No...that's not what I am saying. I said that 85% is the kiter and 15% is the equipment. The kiting industry does make board specifications for very specific results.


Nature/nurture argument.. Yes, BUT the gear affects ride quality BIG time.. in fact it probably will define what you enjoy doing also!! This is true for me coming from a door learning and going into a 50/Fifty.

I'm used to my skatey and large stance 50-50 and when I try something else (from someone who wants to try my board for example), I have to get off it right away, would rather not ride, yeah really!

On the other hand it took me a bit of getting used to the 50-50, needs to be edged harder for example.. so I kept second guessing myself on my decision at the time..

Segue - what I'd be interested in knowing is for those who have ridden the 50, if they could comment on which others are better and worthy of consideration. Joke? I tried the Jamie Pro, it's almost at that level, but not quite.. would kill for the pads tho.

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Re: 8 years kiting and I was so wrong about boards

Postby Peter_Frank » Wed Dec 26, 2012 8:33 pm

Kiteus Maximus wrote:Snip...

One more thing about spray. If you are getting spray from the front of your board it means you are placing too much weight on your forward foot. Spray primarily occurs when you are edging and a wave or the water simply hits the outside of your posterior calf and shoots up at an angle towards your face. Riding in chop...especially heavy chop its almost impossible to avoid spray...unless you kite like Mrs. Daisy and creep along. Seriously...you can ride nearly any board without getting spray in your face if you learn to ride it properly. Sorry to offend anyone with this post but its true.


Totally disagree.

Of course you might be able to minimize the spray, by riding the board "differently" - in a way that is out of normal context that is...

There are DEFINITELY some boards, that has been designed wrong, regarding fin placement and edges, so you get a continous spray straight in the face most of the time (one was an older Slingshot board f.ex, and even with different rider weight we all agreed is was a huge problem - but they fixed it on the next model).

So saying it is "true" that it is only rider errors is just your view on this, as polarstorm correctly points out.

I am convinced, having seen and tried so many different boards with different "spray" in both small and heavy chop and small waves, that it is the design that matters, and not the rider.

As if the rider has to compensate - this means not being able to utilize the full potential of the board :(

It is very odd if you havent tried boards that cuts fast and easy through even heavy chop, without really making spray - as these exist :naughty:

Of course, if taking the "main stream" tt way, one might not experience these boards... :roll:

And I am 100% sure the OP and others are not talking about spray from your own calf in heavy chop - as that would be a silly point to make.
It has got nothing to do with the board, but only the rider and conditions and experience

:D Peter

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Re: 8 years kiting and I was so wrong about boards

Postby plummet » Wed Dec 26, 2012 8:57 pm

While we are "discussing" spray. I think the more rectangular shapes give more spray in chop. More curved shapes towards the nose.. less spray..... also less upwind ability...

My board gives almost no spray in most consditions. I can and do have sessions when my upper torso is completely dry for most of the session only getting wet if i crash.. dry hair sessions are fairly common these days.

Note I'm in a wave/chop location. no flat water for this white man... well flat inbetween white wash but thats it. i'm slammen through chop every session. A board that slices through and smooths out chop is more important to me than ultimate upwind or popability that the less rounded boards give. I also think more rounded tips hold way more power than rectangular shapes.

The concave on this marko is very interesting to me. its that much more concave than i have seen on any other board. I'm still not sold on a stiff board tho. creating that much concave really dictates that the board must be stuff otherwise weird flex patterns will occur.

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Peter_Frank
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Re: 8 years kiting and I was so wrong about boards

Postby Peter_Frank » Wed Dec 26, 2012 9:12 pm

Very true - the more curved board usually has less spray in chop.

But even VERY curved boards, will spray ridiculously from the front fin, if placed incorrectly (too near the edge I think, but more factors matters)

:D Peter

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Re: 8 years kiting and I was so wrong about boards

Postby panchito » Thu Dec 27, 2012 1:39 pm

Peter_Frank wrote:
And I am 100% sure the OP and others are not talking about spray from your own calf in heavy chop - as that would be a silly point to make.

:D Peter


Well.. it looks like most folks have a hard time believing what I said . Actually , I had the same thought while I was riding that board .

The point is , on any " ordinary " tt when riding ( going upwind ) only a maximum of 40 % of the board is IN the water , the rest of the board in actually in the air ...

Riding THAT board , most of the time you ride it almost flat , like a surfboard .... yeah ... as you read it ... I need to make a vid about it but I would guess that 60-70% of the board rides on top of the water , you don´t need to lean pressing your feet / calfs to get the angle to ride it , your body position is way more relaxed , you lean your body but your that board stays almost flat ....

THATS the funny / amazing / wired / confusing / crazy part of it ...

It looks like an " funny " looking TT but it behaves like a surfboard .


Anyway ....

Saludos


Franz

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Re: 8 years kiting and I was so wrong about boards

Postby Flight Time » Thu Dec 27, 2012 1:59 pm

plummet wrote:My board gives almost no spray in most consditions. I can and do have sessions when my upper torso is completely dry for most of the session only getting wet if i crash.. dry hair sessions are fairly common these days.


Whenever I dry out from the torso up, I try something I haven't done before, to break the pattern. :D Usually means I've been dogging it. I need a couple good crashes to round out a session, it seems. :lol:

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Re: 8 years kiting and I was so wrong about boards

Postby peterheirman » Thu Dec 27, 2012 2:14 pm

I have build Twintips (and directionals) from plywood since 2002.
In the beginning my boards where stiffer and had better flex at the tips so I could beat anybody even with a Cabrinha CO2 (not exactly the best kite at that moment) and F-One Mach I 9.1
In the meantime production boards got better.

The board has some importance, the kite has much impact but it's the kite-pilot who is mostly responsible for the performance: speed, going upwind and jumping.
Still fly Best Nemesis HP 2008 series and my woodies

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panchito
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Re: 8 years kiting and I was so wrong about boards

Postby panchito » Thu Dec 27, 2012 5:06 pm

Here´re some pics I took a while ago to show you a bit the differences ....

Just as a side note : this is not a comparison between two brands , rather between two different designs / concepts .

The TT is 134 x 42 , the Woody is 165 x 42
IMG_0928.jpg



But is has twice the rocker ....
IMG_0930.JPG


And also at least twice the volume
IMG_0936.JPG


The TT has also much more concave comparing to
IMG_0937.JPG


the Woody .... actually is the opposite, at the tails , the Woody is the other way around ... it doubles the concave against the TT were it gets fairly flat ..
IMG_0938.JPG



By the way ... I just mounted the 3 surf fins to try it out on Saturday , the first session I rode the board the way it came ... 4 cm side fins and 6 cm center fin

The second time kept the side fins and added the 9cm center surf fin ( which I like much more since it had more grip on tight turns )

I´m not sure if the 3 surf fins ( side fins 8 cm ) could be an overkill but I guess , I´ll find it out soon


Regards

Franz

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Re: 8 years kiting and I was so wrong about boards

Postby L0KI » Thu Dec 27, 2012 6:17 pm

Makos have 18mm of concave...how much concave does this Bellacera have?


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