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 Post subject: Re: Wetsuits - how compare lined versus unlined?
PostPosted: Thu Dec 27, 2012 7:41 pm 
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Joined: Thu Aug 30, 2012 2:04 am
Posts: 176
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but my new wetsuit violates the smooth skin principle.

I would not say it violates the "smooth skin principle". The same suit in a smooth skin would be warmer than a nylon coated suit because the nylon holds some moisture that evaporates when the wind blows over it. But design, fit, and stitching are still the most crucial elements because water movement is the biggest factor. Your suit is probably really warm already from those other features, but it would be warmer if smooth skin. A poor quality smooth skin suit would not would not be warmer than your suit.

Quote:
but my new wetsuit violates the smooth skin principle.

I would not say it violates the "smooth skin principle". The same suit in a smooth skin would be warmer than a nylon coated suit because the nylon holds some moisture that evaporates when the wind blows over it. But design, fit, and stitching are still the most crucial elements because water movement is the biggest factor. Your suit is probably really warm already from those other features, but it would be warmer if smooth skin. A poor quality smooth skin suit would not would not be warmer than your suit.


Your AMP 3 is designed with a small front zip will reduce water entry and movement.
Quote:
Hooded AMP Diagonal Front Zip Entryway
Our hooded AMP front zip entry has been proven and perfected over the last 4 years in winter conditions.
AMP Mini Front Zip Entryway
The most refined front entry on the market. Stretch fit and double barrel cinch toggles ensure a correct fit without flushing for all body types.


It uses high quality stitching
Quote:
100% Liquid Taped Sealed Seams
All critical external seams are glued, blind-stitched and liquid taped for warmth, durability and flexibility. All interior stress points are then spot taped for added strength.


And it appears to use both radiant and a fleece liner
Quote:
100% AQ3 Thermal Interior Lining Throughout Suit
Xtend HollowFiber Thermal Lining (fancy name for fleece)


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 Post subject: Re: Wetsuits - how compare lined versus unlined?
PostPosted: Thu Dec 27, 2012 8:57 pm 
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Joined: Thu Aug 30, 2012 2:04 am
Posts: 176
Eree,
Sorry, I cannot folow your arguments. They do not make sense and seem to contradict themselves over and over. Not sure of your background, but I have done some extensive testing of protective clothing in my lifetime if that helps.

No one is suggesting you make yourself an all metal wetsuit. However just like building insulation, your wetsuit is a sandwich with a radiant barrier overtop a mass barrier (neoprene). Also conduction and heat transfer are a factor of mass. The layer of reflective material is extremely thin and is againt a layer of very low thermal conductivity. It is not like it will accelerate the heat loss through the neoprene.

Quote:
so note that when that metalized neoprene touch your skin with the metalized side it is not radiation or convection any more, it's conduction! and the metals are the best of the heat conductors!!!

No. It is not as if you have one or the other. Both radiation and conduction are always in play. So yes there will be some miniscule increase in conduction (a tiny amount of material bounded by a neoprene layer of low thermal conductivity) and some reflection of radiated energy. But the reflective layer is not a heat sump because of its very low mass, and it is bounded by an insulating layer

Quote:
and if you look again, this time attentively, in the thermos bottle you'll see that bottle is metalized from outside and the main insulator is vacuumed gas between the two layers of glass. so no direct physical contact between hot liquid and outer metalized shell.

No. A thermos is glass, then metal coating on the glass, then the vacum barrier. The liquid is in direct contact with glass which is a very poor insulator. So it is in essence nearly direct contact with the radiant barrier.

Quote:
end again, everywhere in home insulations or home appliances insulations the metal (e.g. aluminium) foil is aways outside of real thermal insulation (like rock wool or glass wool).
there is always a heat insulator between the source of heat (or cold) and reflective metal layer.

No again. Look at winter clothing that uses the reflective layer on the inside to reflect heat back in. If it was on the outside of your jacket it would reflect heat back out. That is why blast furnace workers and firemen have reflective barriers on the outside to reflect the heat out.

Again, as I have pointed out radiant barriers are not going to make a poor designed wet suit toasty warm. But they will provide additional warmth and the same principle is exactly seen in other application.


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 Post subject: Re: Wetsuits - how compare lined versus unlined?
PostPosted: Sat Dec 29, 2012 7:42 am 
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Joined: Wed Oct 31, 2012 11:08 pm
Posts: 400
Location: Venice, Florida
Thank you SSK for taking what we all know and is demonstrated time and time again in our physical world and wording it so it is easy for those of a sceptical nature to comprehend. Next we will probably be arguing with him over this so-called "gravity" theory. :lol: :lol:


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