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 Post subject: Kitesurfing board vs Surfboard width vs.lenght
PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 10:05 pm 
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I would like to understand or have and idea of the difference in
lenght vs width when you design a surfboards vs a kiteboard.

My background came from Surfing and in surfboards"normally"
on the same model of a surfboard when you drop the lenght
you increase the width. For example if you have a 5'8 x 19"
when you drop the same model to 5'4" normally you increase
the width for example to 20 1/2" and also increase the tickness.
As everyone knows this gives more volume or compensate for more flotation
on the shorter board that you lose when you drop the lenght.
The extra width and more tickness in the short board also helps on the flat sections
of small waves, they also have less rocker, etc etc

But when you check some models of different kiteboards brands
if they drop the lenght they also drop the width (and also drop the tickness).
If we check for example the North Whip the 5'8" is 5'8" x 18 3/4"
and the 5'4" is 5'4" x 18". We can check also other models like Airush
Cypher or F-one fish and they do the same they drop the lenght and the width
on the small size board. why?

I would like to hear some comments or explanations of a kitesurfing board designer.

Thanks....................................


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 Post subject: Re: Kitesurfing board vs Surfboard width vs.lenght
PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 10:31 pm 
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Manuel V wrote:
I would like to understand or have and idea of the difference in
lenght vs width when you design a surfboards vs a kiteboard.

My background came from Surfing and in surfboards"normally"
on the same model of a surfboard when you drop the lenght
you increase the width. For example if you have a 5'8 x 19"
when you drop the same model to 5'4" normally you increase
the width for example to 20 1/2" and also increase the tickness.
As everyone knows this gives more volume or compensate for more flotation
on the shorter board that you lose when you drop the lenght.
The extra width and more tickness in the short board also helps on the flat sections
of small waves, they also have less rocker, etc etc

But when you check some models of different kiteboards brands
if they drop the lenght they also drop the width (and also drop the tickness).
If we check for example the North Whip the 5'8" is 5'8" x 18 3/4"
and the 5'4" is 5'4" x 18". We can check also other models like Airush
Cypher or F-one fish and they do the same they drop the lenght and the width
on the small size board. why?

I would like to hear some comments or explanations of a kitesurfing board designer.

Thanks....................................


Not a designer of boards, but I am assuming they are designing for a different rider. For you, yes if you have an ideal flotation or overall surface area sure you have to compensate, but there are a lot of different kiters, with different requirements out there, all wanting something different.

personally I enjoy very different boards at different times.


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 Post subject: Re: Kitesurfing board vs Surfboard width vs.lenght
PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2013 1:19 am 
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Quote:
Not a designer of boards, but I am assuming they are designing for a different rider. For you, yes if you have an ideal flotation or overall surface area sure you have to compensate, but there are a lot of different kiters, with different requirements out there, all wanting something different.

personally I enjoy very different boards at different times.


I understand perfectly that everyone enjoy different boards at different times. For a specific
lenght of board riders can select between a lot of different kitesurfing boards "models" depending on your weight, type of wave, etc etc
For example for surfing I have three different models or shapes of 5'10" to use them depending
On the conditions.................

What I refer is specific to the same "model" of kitesurfing board
Is curious that kiteboard companies make the same model shorter
and also with less width. Totally different to the design of the surfing boards
That usually the same model if is shorter have more width.


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 Post subject: Re: Kitesurfing board vs Surfboard width vs.lenght
PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2013 4:47 am 
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They make them small for jumping and handling choppy water.
And rider size, bigger board for a bigger guy, but the thinking in kitesurfboards seems to mainly width/area, since kiters don't really need volume to float, usually.
I can duckdive my kitesurf board really easily, and catch a few waves surfing, but it bogs down easily, and paddles very slowly. That is because it is only ~2" thick, and I weigh 80kg.
I have also kitesurfed surfboards big enough to surf on, they work well too.
With more volume, they can handle smaller kites. Bigger boards may require more skill using the rail and rocker to smooth out chop though, and be more vulnerable in jumps.
It's worth it to master the learning curve imho.
My next board will be a surf-able size for me, probably volume around 34-38L, 6'2"-6'6" --and probably not from a kite brand.
But ideal would be a 2 board quiver, one wide or "hybrid," with fairly low rocker, and a step-up, longer and and narrower, not much more volume, maybe the same.
Smooth outlines for predictability/versatility, round or squash tails, 5 box fin setups...
Should cover knee-high to OH waves, flat, chop, 10-30kts etc.
Who will build me these?
Got to budget them, first.... :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: Kitesurfing board vs Surfboard width vs.lenght
PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2013 5:39 am 
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Manuel V wrote:
For example for surfing I have three different models or shapes of 5'10" to use them depending
On the conditions.................

What I refer is specific to the same "model" of kitesurfing board
Is curious that kiteboard companies make the same model shorter
and also with less width. Totally different to the design of the surfing boards
That usually the same model if is shorter have more width.


No I do not think it is different from surfboard. Same model in surfboard as far as I have seen is more narrow as it gets shorter. Mostly.

Most surboards shapes I know of scales that way. The reason is that shorter boards in the same model are usually made for smaller people.

Do you have any examples of same model board getting fatter as it gets shorter? I'm not saying it doesn't happen, but I do not think it is usual.


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 Post subject: Re: Kitesurfing board vs Surfboard width vs.lenght
PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2013 6:15 am 
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Quote:
Do you have any examples of same model board getting fatter as it gets shorter? I'm not saying it doesn't happen, but I do not think it is usual.


Nearly every shaper that makes a quiver for somebody, follows this rule or a variation.
Probably none of the pop-out, branded stuff does, high quality though they may be, as you point out.


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 Post subject: Re: Kitesurfing board vs Surfboard width vs.lenght
PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2013 6:19 am 
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BWD wrote:
Quote:
Do you have any examples of same model board getting fatter as it gets shorter? I'm not saying it doesn't happen, but I do not think it is usual.


Nearly every shaper that makes a quiver for somebody, follows this rule or a variation.
Probably none of the pop-out, branded stuff does, high quality though they may be, as you point out.


yeah sure for one person, given same conditions, but that is the point isn't it though, that board lines aren't for one person, and not for one condition.

;-)


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 Post subject: Re: Kitesurfing board vs Surfboard width vs.lenght
PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2013 8:22 am 
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BWD and Taut is right, depending on the customer size and needs.

Remember, the production boards are aimed for customers between 50 and 120kg, and most bigger brands aim to reach at least 60kg to 100 kg users :naughty:

So normally the boards are simply scaled up/down, so they work for the desired weight group.

And if one user wants a "quiver" of different boards for different conditions, choosing two sizes in one line could be an option, but more often a different line is chosen.

F.ex North, they got the Wam for those liking waves and slow (tail rocker) a bit wider boards that works well on the wave and on steep waves.
The Kontakt is for those wanting a faster board, f.ex in bigger waves - where you want more speed to pass the sections and not get "stuck" on the waveface with a slower board.
Or for smaller waves when choppy 8)

This is just personal preferences, but the same target group.

Then, for light wind or messy conditions or current, they got the Whip - which is a lot wider and a bit shorter, and glides well but still lively.

And all of these "lines" are scaled up and down to suit different weights mostly :thumb:

North got 3-4 other different lines for personal taste and different use and weight groups also.


This is the same principle all production brands use is my experience - some just cover a wider (weight) range than others, but with the risk of not selling much in the "extreme" sizes of course.


But you are right Manuel - the versatility in kitesurfboards seems much more widespread than surfboards, as many surfboards are towards the same shapes at first look (apparently - not in the details), but when making a quiver for one surfer the width is typically increased when boards are shorter - except for big wave guns of course :rollgrin:

But you still scale up and down also, for different weight.

:D Peter


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 Post subject: Re: Kitesurfing board vs Surfboard width vs.lenght
PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2013 9:24 am 
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not to be nitpicking (yes I know it is), but it is not simple scaling. like the large brands also individually design kites, I do think some individually design boards :-)

(sorry for nit picking)


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 Post subject: Re: Kitesurfing board vs Surfboard width vs.lenght
PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2013 2:33 pm 
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Location: Puerto Rico
Peter_Frank wrote:
BWD and Taut is right, depending on the customer size and needs.

Remember, the production boards are aimed for customers between 50 and 120kg, and most bigger brands aim to reach at least 60kg to 100 kg users :naughty:

So normally the boards are simply scaled up/down, so they work for the desired weight group.

And if one user wants a "quiver" of different boards for different conditions, choosing two sizes in one line could be an option, but more often a different line is chosen.

F.ex North, they got the Wam for those liking waves and slow (tail rocker) a bit wider boards that works well on the wave and on steep waves.
The Kontakt is for those wanting a faster board, f.ex in bigger waves - where you want more speed to pass the sections and not get "stuck" on the waveface with a slower board.
Or for smaller waves when choppy 8)

This is just personal preferences, but the same target group.

Then, for light wind or messy conditions or current, they got the Whip - which is a lot wider and a bit shorter, and glides well but still lively.

And all of these "lines" are scaled up and down to suit different weights mostly :thumb:

North got 3-4 other different lines for personal taste and different use and weight groups also.


This is the same principle all production brands use is my experience - some just cover a wider (weight) range than others, but with the risk of not selling much in the "extreme" sizes of course.


But you are right Manuel - the versatility in kitesurfboards seems much more widespread than surfboards, as many surfboards are towards the same shapes at first look (apparently - not in the details), but when making a quiver for one surfer the width is typically increased when boards are shorter - except for big wave guns of course :rollgrin:

But you still scale up and down also, for different weight.

:D Peter


I think that every rider needs at least a two board quiver,
in general a shorter board with more width and a longer board with less width,
and they need to be different models as you explain with the different examples of
the North Board models. :thumb:
If we stay on the same model we would not find that extra width on the shorter board.

thanks for everyone input.


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