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 Post subject: What Did You Pay?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2013 1:15 pm 
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hi all,

one of the advantages of forums is the free sharing of information for the benefit of all...

along that line, wouldn't it be to our benefit to disclose what the asking/retail price of a kite and/or board and what you actually paid...

this information could then be used by others in negotiating the lowest price possible...

for example, this is done quite effectively on some auto forums...

what do you think, do you see any value in this, especially in this industry where prices seem to be well ahead of inflation...

thanks in advance for your input....

windr


{ SHARE_ON_FACEBOOK } { SHARE_ON_TWITTER } { SHARE_ON_ORKUT } { SHARE_ON_DIGG } { SHARE_ON_MYSPACE } { SHARE_ON_DELICIOUS }
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 Post subject: Re: What Did You Pay?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2013 2:35 pm 
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Location: World (KF Admin)
And before you go in a shop and get all the info from the guys...and then you buy online the cheapest possible?

Next time you return to the shop and see a "closed" sign and you wonder...


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 Post subject: Re: What Did You Pay?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2013 3:42 pm 
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We don't have local kite shops in Vegas, so ALL the shopping
is done on-line.

Of all the on-line dealers i have done business with , 321 Kiteboarding
in Cocoa Beach was the Best. They will Deal with a problem if it
comes up and stand behind their products because they only sell
quality stuff.


http://www.321kiteboarding.com/

If you want a Factory second from some out the Back door
Chinese distributor, then you can deal with the "Hell" they will put you
through if Ya try & return it ; usually NOT worth the $2 savings in the end !!

Bille


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 Post subject: Re: What Did You Pay?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2013 3:56 pm 
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Joined: Tue Oct 18, 2011 3:58 am
Posts: 334
Is this guy for real,we work on 30% to 20% max,imagine if someone suggested we start a forum on negotiating how much wages we pay guys at end of week,i have guys come into my shop ask me for a launch with a wet suit they bought on line,and most of the time its to big on them,or phone me up and ask me whats it blowing,what are the waves like,my accountnant tells 20% or give up,shops work on keeping access to beaches open,and work with local authorities on safety and launch areas on beaches,i do this because i love it not for the money,cause its a hard way to make money Toby your right this is why so many shops are closing,but most people dont think like this,or we would all be closed down,TONY


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 Post subject: Re: What Did You Pay?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2013 4:25 pm 
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tony montana wrote:
Is this guy for real,we work on 30% to 20% max,TONY


Hi Tony,

So are you suggsting that when a shop has a sale and an item is marked down more than 30%, they are actually selling it at a loss....

Or does the company/supplier sell over stock to a store for 50% off, so that the they still can make the minimum to stay afloat...

It might be unfair to compare sporting goods shop to an auto dealership where you have sticker price, invoice price and actual dealer cost....

once the actual dealer cost is established and known then the buyer can negotiate a reasonable mark up between 4 and 9 percent...

you are simply asked to consider whether transparency and reasonableness create more of a win/win situation and perhaps create more of a level playing field between the on-line and actual store front shops...

windr


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 Post subject: Re: What Did You Pay?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2013 4:35 pm 
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w_ndrunner wrote:
tony montana wrote:
Is this guy for real,we work on 30% to 20% max,TONY


Hi Tony,

So are you suggsting that when a shop has a sale and an item is marked down more than 30%, they are actually selling it at a loss....

Or does the company/supplier sell over stock to a store for 50% off, so that the they still can make the minimum to stay afloat...

It might be unfair to compare sporting goods shop to an auto dealership where you have sticker price, invoice price and actual dealer cost....

once the actual dealer cost is established and known then the buyer can negotiate a reasonable mark up between 4 and 9 percent...

you are simply asked to consider whether transparency and reasonableness create more of a win/win situation and perhaps create more of a level playing field between the on-line and actual store front shops...

windr

All hardware in surf shops has a max 30% mark up,eg wet suits surfboards,fins,kites,kite boards,we rarley make 30%,i been in buissness since 1996,and can assure you of this FACT, any shop selling hardware more than 30% is loosing money,TONY


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 Post subject: Re: What Did You Pay?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2013 4:51 pm 
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Joined: Wed Oct 16, 2002 1:00 am
Posts: 5598
Location: Denmark
Are prices ahead of inflation ???

I think it is the other way around...

Prices on gear has not really gotten higher the last 10 years (only a quite subtle amount maybe), but the quality has gone up, as has the inflation.

So I think prices (relative to wages) has gone down slightly actually, with better production process and harder competition.
At least steady and not increasing :naughty:

I always buy boards and suits and harnesses etc in a shop - and I dont bargain about the price (even if it is a friend of mine that is selling or owning the shop), as then there would be absolutely no business left for them or us buyers, because the profit is so ridiculously small - and sometimes non existent :-?

Bargaining is a difficult issue though - as in some countries you always bargain when you buy things in shops, in other countries it hardly exists.
Very culture related too.
Thus, the standard shop price will often be set according to whether you expect bargaining or not.
Also different between shops I think - some shops expect bargaining about the price, other shops wont deal with this whatsoever - take the price or leave it 8)

:D Peter


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 Post subject: Re: What Did You Pay?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2013 5:07 pm 
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tony montana wrote:
w_ndrunner wrote:
tony montana wrote:
Is this guy for real,we work on 30% to 20% max,TONY


Hi Tony,

So are you suggsting that when a shop has a sale and an item is marked down more than 30%, they are actually selling it at a loss....

Or does the company/supplier sell over stock to a store for 50% off, so that the they still can make the minimum to stay afloat...

It might be unfair to compare sporting goods shop to an auto dealership where you have sticker price, invoice price and actual dealer cost....

once the actual dealer cost is established and known then the buyer can negotiate a reasonable mark up between 4 and 9 percent...

you are simply asked to consider whether transparency and reasonableness create more of a win/win situation and perhaps create more of a level playing field between the on-line and actual store front shops...

windr

All hardware in surf shops has a max 30% mark up,eg wet suits surfboards,fins,kites,kite boards,we rarley make 30%,i been in buissness since 1996,and can assure you of this FACT, any shop selling hardware more than 30% is loosing money,TONY


Tony,

for the past four years, the shop that I patronize has year end kite sales and the savings have been more than 30%, so what would be the incentive for a store to sell at a loss...

given that the store is still in business does that mean they make very very close to 30% on most item allowing them to sell some items at a loss to gain a broader customer base who in the future will buy at the 30% mark up price...

windr


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 Post subject: Re: What Did You Pay?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2013 5:18 pm 
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Joined: Wed Oct 16, 2002 1:00 am
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Location: Denmark
I dont understand that one ?

If a shop has excess gear at the end of the season, when new things are coming - many, or even most, will sell without gain or with a loss, that is normal I think :roll:

Of course not desired, so aiming to have the reasonably right amount of gear ordered so no waiting time for customers, nor having to sell too much with loss at the end of the season - is the best, but not possible to hit bullseye.

And selling an item even with a huge loss, is better than NOT selling because it is "last season" and noone wants it...

Some things are not that prone to devaluating even if last years model, but others are extremely sensitive in such sports like ours, where "what we need and what we think we need (want)" can also be two different things :naughty:

:D Peter


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 Post subject: Re: What Did You Pay?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2013 5:29 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jun 05, 2003 3:37 am
Posts: 2362
Well since it's been no secret for a decade, at the nosebleed retail outlets in the US (excuse me I mean the struggling local businesses), the standard deal has been, buy 3 kites, get 10-15% off early in the season, sometimes 20-30% end of season depending on what's left, etc.
Sometimes discounts for single kites, usually not, or minimal 10% or less.
And some folks, just don't give much of a discount, for various reasons.

Still, it's good to buy in a shop if you are new to it or venturing into a different style and need advice, which happens often enough in this sport. I've lately bought used kites and saved a ton, but I go into shops for harnesses, boardshorts, etc.
Heck, buy a couple of pairs of trunks, wetsuit and a little gift for someone special, and you have done almost as much for the shop bottom line than buying a kite anyway. Unless they have bigger kite margins than they claim, buybacks, distributor deals etc..... ;)

Car dealers make their money on service, surfshops make it on bikinis


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