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wave kite with excellent low end?

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iblocalsurfer
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Re: wave kite with excellent low end?

Postby iblocalsurfer » Thu Feb 14, 2013 3:02 pm

Westozzy,
no, I mean my 8m.

mike dubs
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Re: wave kite with excellent low end?

Postby mike dubs » Thu Feb 14, 2013 7:45 pm

I have owned a few grunty kites I have used in waves, not only can you use a smaller size it also helps you get back out easier in onshore conditions.

North Evo's 2010 and 2011 12/9/7 but only used the 9 and 7, loads of power, reasonable turning but not the best drift. Wainman smoke 2009 fantastic one kite quiver usable from a solid 15+ upto over 30mph, BWS noise 8m loads of power, good drift reasonably fast turning once initiated hard. Bandit V and recently B6, sizes 12/9/7 really god low end, great drift, speed and overall best kites I have owned or ridden in 13 yrs.

Will probably go to 10/8/6 sizes next time as am hardly using the 12's over last few years. The 9 is my main kite.

Mike

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Re: wave kite with excellent low end?

Postby ankers » Fri Feb 15, 2013 9:10 am

low end has advantages.

Indeed once on the surf, you dont need it, but all the rest of the time, i like lowend:
1. i gets me back faster to the lineup
2. it allows me to use a size smaller, so turns faster
3. in onshore, you get tru the brake sooner

So low end, yes, but as argumented, it should be combined with good depower and drift once surfing

i remember: BWS, rebel and??? what about park 2013?

H53Driver
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Re: wave kite with excellent low end?

Postby H53Driver » Fri Feb 15, 2013 2:24 pm

iblocalsurfer wrote:no, I mean my 8m.


Still not getting it.....oh dear.

iblocalsurfer
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Re: wave kite with excellent low end?

Postby iblocalsurfer » Fri Feb 15, 2013 4:11 pm

OK, little slow here. I took Westozzy's post literally. I will say this tho taut, the 8m Noise has almost the same lowend as the 12m Park(2011) I had. In fact, the lack of lowend is the reason I sold the Naish.
Last edited by iblocalsurfer on Fri Feb 15, 2013 4:22 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Peter_Frank
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Re: wave kite with excellent low end?

Postby Peter_Frank » Fri Feb 15, 2013 4:19 pm

ankers wrote:low end has advantages.

Indeed once on the surf, you dont need it, but all the rest of the time, i like lowend:
1. i gets me back faster to the lineup
2. it allows me to use a size smaller, so turns faster
3. in onshore, you get tru the brake sooner

So low end, yes, but as argumented, it should be combined with good depower and drift once surfing

i remember: BWS, rebel and??? what about park 2013?


1 and 3 not true :roll: - but 2, true :naughty:

Although, I would say it different: Once in (on) the surf, low end is a disadvantage and not just something you dont need, as you change speed and apparent wind a lot, because of the wave - so you limit yourself if not much depower (hooked in riding) :-?


I can not remember who wrote something like "all big kites are low-end kites" ?

This is not the case - as a low end kite is a kite with more grunt than average, with more "steady out" power - but on cost of windrange, as if you put more low end in a kite, you sell out the double amount in the upper end so to speak, so the more low end the less windrange.
But a smaller kite can be used, true.

So in daily terms low end is something a 4m2 kite can have, as well as a 20m2.

It is independant of kitesize, and mostly dependent of the camber only 8)

:D Peter

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Re: wave kite with excellent low end?

Postby lbatbeach » Fri Feb 15, 2013 7:29 pm

So many variables at play. Your size, your break, strapped or strapless, ability level, wind direction....etc etc. I am relatively light (160lbs) and I had North Evo's in 2010. The low end was too much for me. But if you rode them in the sweet spot of their range, they were always where you wanted them to be. I traded out for Naish Parks. They are just a great all around kite that does everything reasonably well. I like them because they fly fast, drift well, and have great top end. All important traits for riding waves in my opinion. They also do not have as wide an arc as say the Rebel (which is an upwind machine). Kites that have a really wide arc (meaning the kite sits way forward in the window) are harder to fly in surf because when you edge against the kite, the kite surges forward and has further to go when rotating to the other side. At least that is my take.

I would put Evo, Wainmans in a similar category. Parks, Drifters, and RPMs in another. The first have more "low end". The latter, just seem to do it all well. Rebel seems to be its own animal, being super efficient but a little too heavy on the bar for my liking.

I have to laugh though when people say that Naish improved the low end on the Parks from 2011 to 2012. In my opinion, all they really did was change the number on the kite. We laid them out and could find no discernable size difference between a 2011 9m and at 2012 8m.

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Re: wave kite with excellent low end?

Postby tautologies » Fri Feb 15, 2013 8:03 pm

As a way of differentiating power and grunt, I see it as electricity with voltage and watts, where voltage is the grunt.

Re 2011 to 2012 Parks, I seem to remember that someone pointed out the 2012 years park were bigger per size and would therefore naturally have a bit more power. I could definitely feel more power. Maybe not more grunt, but more power. Now the to Ankers question on the 2013, the parks seem to have opened the shape up a little more, leading to a but more grunt and low end. It still feels solid in gusts. I think what struck me was when I was on the raceboard, that the park this year could be used with a raceboard..the earlier was not great with raceboards...

I think that there is a lot to the merit of getting a kite that fits your style, but also getting a kite that fits the spot you ride. The evo I had, for instance, was a great kite at one spot, and horrible kite at another. That had more to do with the kite not fitting the spot..it is extremely gusty, and off shore winds, and where the parks would jump forward and work great, the evo would pull me through the wave (not really where I wanted to go). This is not me hating on the evo..it was well made kite, and it worked great in one spot...it was just not made for the spot I usually go.

I think in general people who feels the park lacked low end might have been a little heavy on the back foot(?)...it would make the kite shoot forward. The other thing is that and they would move the bar a little too much. If you locked the bar in, it works much better. Having seen what my buddy can get out of the 2012 8 park at 200lb, I am not at all worried about the low end on the kite. It is actually interesting that people have such different opinions on a kite..that some say it has great low end, and some say it does not. I attribute that to two things, inexperience with other kites, and technique. Probably a mix of both.

Aaaanyways. Where the previous models of park were light to medium grunt, I think the new one is medium or medium to heavy grunt.

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tautologies
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Re: wave kite with excellent low end?

Postby tautologies » Fri Feb 15, 2013 8:40 pm

just a note. Check out the Naish ride too. Id say it has more low end. It is also a very light kite. Great all round kite. The 10 became my go to kite.

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haiku
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Re: wave kite with excellent low end?

Postby haiku » Sat Feb 16, 2013 9:12 am

Hi everyone. I agree with Taut. The new Park is a way different from the previous one. Now this kite has a lot of grunt and a wider flight window. Two days ago in my home spot I was riding with my Park 12 small waves in 12 to 16 knots when the wind suddenly dropped down. All the other guys ended the session and I was the only kiter to remain into the water for another hour. Amazing. Not to mention the ability of this kite to perform very well in freestyle tricks. For me It is the perfect "all terrain kite" still capable to excel in waves. Granted :thumb: .
Best regards
Carlo

PS: here's a video that I made last November in Maui with the Park 12 2013. The conditions were not so good, small to medium waves and light wind, but this kite performed very well:

http://vimeo.com/53621439


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