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 Post subject: Re: What will kiting look like in 2023?
PostPosted: Fri Feb 15, 2013 11:26 pm 
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tautologies wrote:
C Johnson wrote:
so will there be a space age price tag for these space age kites of the future?
howbout we work on making them cheaper rather then better? I think they are plenty good already. The prices just seem a little on the high side for what you get.

making it cheaper is easy. Just get 100 times as many kiters...and a fewer companies to make kites.
BWD. You are comparing apples and oranges. A kite is much more complex than most sails. The boards you are looking at for 500 is not the same beefed up construction as most kiteboards. If they were we'd be all riding those ultra light construction.

"just get 100 times as many kiters...and a fewer companies to make kites"? please, taut, do you really believe it yourself?

kites a already manufactured dirt cheap.

how come small brand with 3000 or 5000 customers keeps prices lower than top five brands?
oh, i know how.
they don't make dealers meetings at tropical islands locations,
they don't make expensive bikini promotional videos (pretty lame ones in my opinion) in tropical locations,
they don't have to "design" weird new leading edge shapes (which have nothing to do with aerodynamics) every year just to redesign those shapes as the revolutionary ones the very next year,
they don't spend more money on composing the marketing texts then on actual product testings,
they don't share huge proportion of the retail price with half-educated dealers just to be represented in any given area of the world,
and may be their share holders don't demand yearly increase in royalties.


and if you did not notice it yet, speaking positively about unjustified high prices level is not really a marketing argument.
it is just same old pimping...


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 Post subject: Re: What will kiting look like in 2023?
PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2013 8:05 am 
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eree wrote:
"just get 100 times as many kiters...and a fewer companies to make kites"? please, taut, do you really believe it yourself?

kites a already manufactured dirt cheap.

how come small brand with 3000 or 5000 customers keeps prices lower than top five brands?
oh, i know how.
they don't make dealers meetings at tropical islands locations,
they don't make expensive bikini promotional videos (pretty lame ones in my opinion) in tropical locations,
they don't have to "design" weird new leading edge shapes (which have nothing to do with aerodynamics) every year just to redesign those shapes as the revolutionary ones the very next year,
they don't spend more money on composing the marketing texts then on actual product testings,
they don't share huge proportion of the retail price with half-educated dealers just to be represented in any given area of the world,
and may be their share holders don't demand yearly increase in royalties.


and if you did not notice it yet, speaking positively about unjustified high prices level is not really a marketing argument.
it is just same old pimping...


You come off sounding a little bitter.

Now for your question. If I believe in economies of scale? Well yes. It is pretty well proven. It is one of those things you really cannot chose to believe or not..like gravity or evolution it is a fact.
Are there other facets to it to price than volume? Obviously.

If you have another theory on how the market functions please enlighten us with your wealth of knowledge. If it has merit, you'd probably end up with nobel prize.

Now are there other ways to reduce cost? Sure there are. Nobody has said anything else, but if you want to know the best way to reduce per item cost, then it is by producing more items..I'd say the per item the variable cost is higher than sunk cost.. Simple as that. I don't think many of these companies have shareholders. And when you complain about unjustified cost..who are you to judge that? Accept that there are advantages and disadvantages in any model.

But sure there are other variables like quality, attention to detail...that would also keep the cost down. The point is that this is pretty simple stuff.

I'm not sure who spiked your soup with retard elixir and misplaced anger today, but your perception of what innovation is, and that if something doesn't fit your perspective of innovation then it must be done for marketing is bollocks. Any argument like that would lead to no innovation at all. Sure it would be cheap to make the same kite every year, but surely you can feel the difference between kites through the past 10 years?

On a different note, it absolutely blows my mind that so many people who criticize the sigma shape never flew one, or maybe flew early version and compare it with kites today. I think it is a pity they let the Bolt go. It was a fantastic kite.


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 Post subject: Re: What will kiting look like in 2023?
PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2013 8:17 am 
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There will be even more sycophantic spouting than there is now :roll:


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 Post subject: Re: What will kiting look like in 2023?
PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2013 10:24 am 
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John-B wrote:
There will be even more sycophantic spouting than there is now :roll:

...And i see cynicism. What a future we're in for ehh


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 Post subject: Re: What will kiting look like in 2023?
PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2013 10:37 am 
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tautologies wrote:
...And i see cynicism. What a future we're in for ehh


Yeah because corporations and the pushing of consumerism are just euphemisms for altruism and the sycophancy is purely intended to help those less enlightened?

Thinking about it there will be more isms? You might luck out and there will be Naishism - the mass domination of kitesurfing through radical indoctrination of everyone to a totalitarian autocratic sport... all hail the Sigma :thumb:


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 Post subject: Re: What will kiting look like in 2023?
PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2013 11:05 am 
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John-B wrote:

Thinking about it there will be more isms? You might luck out and there will be Naishism - the mass domination of kitesurfing through radical indoctrination of everyone to a totalitarian autocratic sport... all hail the Sigma :thumb:


that is awesome!!!! :thumb: :thumb: Might not be great for competition to have only one supplier, but hey if its a sigma it can;t be wrong. lol.


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 Post subject: Re: What will kiting look like in 2023?
PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2013 11:48 am 
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No development because the companies are spending all their time suing for patent infringements.
but
Hopefully:
lighter - extremely
no bladders, save weight.
7m kite with stability and consistent power of a 16m
extremely efficient kites flying in 5 knots - material coated to repel water so relaunch in lighter wind!

speed boards finally breaking 60kn/500m

kitesurfing will be a separate sport from other kite powered water craft


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 Post subject: Re: What will kiting look like in 2023?
PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2013 1:19 pm 
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Bradn wrote:
No development because the companies are spending all their time suing for patent infringements.
but
Hopefully:
lighter - extremely
no bladders, save weight.
7m kite with stability and consistent power of a 16m
extremely efficient kites flying in 5 knots - material coated to repel water so relaunch in lighter wind!

speed boards finally breaking 60kn/500m

kitesurfing will be a separate sport from other kite powered water craft

I agree. I see bladderless single skin as a next step.err not next...but a leap a few steps from here.. It needs a self-framing technology. I think it will take more than 10yrs for it.


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 Post subject: Re: What will kiting look like in 2023?
PostPosted: Sun Feb 17, 2013 10:10 am 
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Who knows someone might come out with a nice white kite with no eye sore macho
graphics. They might even sell it without having team riders make their "oh look at me pulling dumb tricks in shallow water so I can be seen" marketing videos.

Maybe the sport will finally grow up.

Maybe it will grow up before it's simply banned.


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 Post subject: Re: What will kiting look like in 2023?
PostPosted: Sun Feb 17, 2013 6:43 pm 
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Location: scott klandl burlington, VT
It will look pretty much as it always has. Most riders mowing the lawn with some weak jumps, a few folks charging it. And at least one jackass on the beach who spends all his time talking about the superiority of his ram air.


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