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 Post subject: Re: POV Video - Deathlooping Kite Drags Rider Into A Rock Je
PostPosted: Sun Feb 24, 2013 3:35 am 
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Location: Maui
When I take a slack line tumble, I always come up expecting to be in trouble. You can tell right away if your kite is acting strange... it is either pulling hard or relaunching strangely if you have a tangle. I take a second to see if I can untangle lines before the kite starts to relaunch. If I see it relaunching and I don't have the tangle figured out I release the QR. If I was that close to the beach I would release the QR the first second I thought something was wrong and the leash line the second second.

The other big issue here is where his leash is attached. To me it looks like its behind him where he can't reach it. Most of us aren't doing handle passes and should just attach the leash to the front where it's as natural to release as the main QR.


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 Post subject: Re: POV Video - Deathlooping Kite Drags Rider Into A Rock Je
PostPosted: Sun Feb 24, 2013 3:39 am 
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I was just watching the video again... who knows how long this had been going on but from the first second he is looping out of control not know what is going on. It still takes him over a minute to release QR. If he had released QR right away he would have had all that time to release the leash before hitting the jetty.


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 Post subject: Re: POV Video - Deathlooping Kite Drags Rider Into A Rock Je
PostPosted: Sun Feb 24, 2013 4:07 am 
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Very good observations from everyone. Were there things he could do to fix and fly, sure. Was he reacting fast enough, no. Will he in the future, if he learned anything here, then yes.

When teaching students about the quick release systems, I always ask my students, what do you value more, your life or your 1500 dollar kite? I then make it clear that you need to know that answer before shit hits the fan because if you wait for it to happen and then ask the question, you end up dragged into a jetty. Obviously this man started cursing because he figured he just blew a wad of cash. He probably assumed his kite would hit the jetty sometime after the first loops.

He could have pulled lengths of lines in a specific way to flag it or quickly pull the secondary release and unhook to un-invert the bar.

He should have just ditched it all though, I probably would have ditched it. I've been in a situation like this where I was riding suicide and forgot. I fell, kite started looking fast, I popped the QR and expected all to be fine. As I did, I remembered I was riding suicide so I was going to go through some more yardage if I didn't ditch my secondary. Anyways, there was a jetty about 80-100 in front of me, but I knew I had a short amount of time so I reeled the leashed kite in and grabbed my Oh-Shit flag loop on the bar at the same time as I released my secondary at my hip. Kite started to loop slightly but quickly flagged on a single flying line.

This is a spot I taught at and managed. I was very aware or the surroundings and how much distance I was being pulled at a time. I probably should have ditched the kite but I knew how to save myself and it at the same time with very little thought involved. Teaching people over and over makes fixing situations easier because we introduce roleplaying or actually supervise and engage ourselves in real life scenarios with our students.

Most people don't teach and I feel like few people really spend much time thinking about the scenarios and rarely observe them second hand. They probably don't practice emergencies, self landings and self rescues either.

It is probably not just a good idea to check your equipment functionality but also do dryland exercises in which you engage both safeties back to back. Pretend upon first release your kite does not respond and you are headed for breakers. Your adrenaline would kick in and you should pop your secondary and say adios to your gear. Or you could practice un-inverting lines or bars.


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 Post subject: Re: POV Video - Deathlooping Kite Drags Rider Into A Rock Je
PostPosted: Sun Feb 24, 2013 6:43 am 
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4 pages of observations by many experienced kiters and I can't believe that not one person bothered to mention o-shit handles.

WAY too many kite companies have gotten away from providing such an inexpensive, secondary safety measure. In this guys case, with the center line wrapped around the bar, had he been able to simply attached his leash, during the 5 minutes he dilly-dallied around on the shore line, to the o shit handle, he would never have had to go through this experience.

Everyone wants to tout their safety system as "the best out there"
But we all know that shit happens and that a primary qr is not always going to function as it was designed to. If you find yourself in a potentially lethal situation but have a little time to analyze the situation, using your redundancy qr could save you.

Obviously After hitting his primary qr with wrapped center lines, the bar would be too far away to reach o-shit handles but this never had to happen in the first place. I'm not sure if cabrina provides the o-shit option but I've known of some systems in the past that didn't have them because their "system was believed to be so good"

The core bar comes to mind, naish is another.

Ditching the kite is the last resort and if someone is downwind of him, then ditching the kite is a major no-no or you risk injuring or even killing that person. Yes, in this case, he should have ditched the kite but it should never have had to come to that.

Ok. I'm done ranting now


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 Post subject: Re: POV Video - Deathlooping Kite Drags Rider Into A Rock Je
PostPosted: Sun Feb 24, 2013 6:48 am 
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Correction. Pivit did mention that he used his o-shit handles in a similar situation. With the kite looping one may not be able to reel the leash in as he did to grab his secondary but at least the kite brand he used had the common sense to include a redundant safety.


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 Post subject: Re: POV Video - Deathlooping Kite Drags Rider Into A Rock Je
PostPosted: Sun Feb 24, 2013 1:16 pm 
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If you have excessive line winding from kite looping, o-shit handles won't work properly either. Most depowering systems rely upon the lines continuing to slide properly, twisted lines tensioned by a powered kite stop or hinder this from happening.

The kite is looping, you are being dragged along perhaps at speed. What are you going to try to do?

If you have a line tangle on you whether you know it or not, your options just dropped even further.


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 Post subject: Re: POV Video - Deathlooping Kite Drags Rider Into A Rock Je
PostPosted: Sun Feb 24, 2013 3:10 pm 
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Pulling the QR1 was not the answer here. Like i said in first post.

Anyone who thinks pulling the QR in this case would help is DEAD wrong. Dead wrong.


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 Post subject: Re: POV Video - Deathlooping Kite Drags Rider Into A Rock Je
PostPosted: Sun Feb 24, 2013 4:11 pm 
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This is where you need oh shit handles. If I see my kite loop on its own directly after launching then I am immediately aware of a problem. Quickly assessing situation and dangers and thinking about deploying kite.

If he had an oh shit handle he could have fully ejected kite and flagged it out.

This guy had far too much time to figure out what to do. His solution was to walk to the beach and try again for a relaunch. Pretty freaking stupid if u ask me.


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 Post subject: Re: POV Video - Deathlooping Kite Drags Rider Into A Rock Je
PostPosted: Sun Feb 24, 2013 6:50 pm 
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coleman wrote:
This is where you need oh shit handles. If I see my kite loop on its own directly after launching then I am immediately aware of a problem. Quickly assessing situation and dangers and thinking about deploying kite.

If he had an oh shit handle he could have fully ejected kite and flagged it out.

This guy had far too much time to figure out what to do. His solution was to walk to the beach and try again for a relaunch. Pretty freaking stupid if u ask me.


Exactly!!!


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 Post subject: Re: POV Video - Deathlooping Kite Drags Rider Into A Rock Je
PostPosted: Sun Feb 24, 2013 7:21 pm 
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I'm pretty thankful for the OH-shit handles. If I let my kite loop like a mofo it might not have flagged properly but at that point I could still let go of the gear just by releasing my finger. I responded quickly and that is why the kite did flag out pretty well. From what I remember, it still had some pull on it but it was stable enough for me to be comfortable to reel that line in further to get my kite and fix the rats nest I created.

I was using my RRD Obsession and the global bar V4. This year on the V5, they took out the oh shit handles so I'm thinking to stop using my older bar and save that for stronger wind days where I might need the oh shit handles for a looping kite, and use the newer bar on lighter days with my big kites.

Cabrinha does not have oh shit handles anymore, however the secondary release is hooked up right to the chicken loop. I've seen people pulled backwards through the water and they forget that there is that release. Cabrinhas new release is helpful because you will be pulled from your spreader bar during the emergency, all you have to do is look down and pull the button towards you with two fingers, rather than use your whole hand to push the leash away.

I think Epic still has oh shit handles too, not sure about the newest bar though. Ozone used to but they may have changed as well. Ocean rodeo also has oh shit handles.


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